Rolando Rosas 5:02
Hey Ron. Oh,
Ronnell Richards 5:04
there it is. I was waiting for that Rolando. I gotta have those tears. Thanks.
Rolando Rosas 5:11
Awesome. Awesome. Hey, we’re glad to have you. Tell us where you checking in from today.
Ronnell Richards 5:16
Guys I’m coming in from normally I would say beautiful Atlanta, Georgia. However today it looks more like The Walking Dead. It’s an ugly day. Yeah. Which is filmed in Atlanta, Georgia.
Dave Kelly 5:25
I was gonna say it was not filmed in like the Macon Atlanta area.
Ronnell Richards 5:29
No, it’s just south of Atlanta, I believe in Fairburn. But now guys, you’re you’re about to get a deep cut. My daughter is an actor and she was on The Walking Dead. Get out. You go season four. How about that?
Rolando Rosas 5:42
Should we go shopping
Dave Kelly 5:44
for makeup on and via when she has zombie?
Ronnell Richards 5:47
No, she was not a zombie. She was one of the one of the people in the community. And she ended up a zombie because everyone does. And then so she did. She she died. She didn’t get a dramatic death. But she died.
Dave Kelly 6:00
There’s an online vlogger that rides motorcycles. His name is Do It With Dan. And when that show first came out, Dan, they bought his motorcycle off of him. And they they modified it. And then it was one of the bikes that a crossbow got? Yeah, a couple of seasons. So that bike actually came from an online content creator named Do It With Dan. Oh, that’s cool, too. Cool.
Rolando Rosas 6:25
That’s really cool. And you know what? Ronnell We’re so glad to have you today. Because there’s some stuff that we really want to get into with you. We want to ask you about business, business and bourbon. We’ll ask you about that book that you wrote. A couple other things that we got it up our sleeve that we want to ask you about. But first, a word from our sponsor for today. This podcast is brought to you by Global Teck Worldwide, your Technology Office experts that’s been around for 20 years providing trusted, personalized office IT solutions, check them out at amazon.com/teck. That’s amazon.com/teck, let me ask you about this Ronnell. What happens when you get a call from somebody trying to sell you something? And it sounds like there’s 300 dogs barking in the background? What’s that like for you?
Ronnell Richards 7:18
That’s a great question. Here’s how I’m going to answer this. And it actually plays into my philosophy and sales and everything. Right now. I think we’re just so in tune to everything, right? Because we’ve been in these virtual and hybrid work environments. So people have gotten a little lazy, right, whether it’s the backgrounds or it’s the dogs or whatever, but I think we’re so in tune that we’re like, we’re hearing all of that stuff. And we’re judging it, even though we’re saying we’re not judging it, we’re absolutely judging it. So I think that sellers and people in business, they need to take this stuff seriously. They need to focus on the details, make sure that their audio is great. They need to make sure that their virtual backgrounds are great. In fact, I don’t like to use virtual backgrounds, as you guys can see. Because I think that says something about me, right. And I think that whether it is someone that I want to do business with someone that wants to sell me or whatever, all of these little things matter. And especially the audio, yes, I agree.
Rolando Rosas 8:12
In seconds matter. And when if things are not going right, I think I may reach for what you got back there. Alcohol, you got to order that drink, let’s just call it a drink two shots, three shots, for some something that keep the vibe going if you got crummy background and your customers keep hanging up on you. But Ronnell, the other thing, you know, right now the world is changing fast. So one of the things that I really want to ask you about, what do you nerding out on? Or what technology are you most interested in at the moment? Is there anything out there right now that wow, you know, really nerding out on from a tech perspective.
Ronnell Richards 8:56
So so I’m going to go in a different direction with that Rolando. All right. I feel like we are loaded on technology right now. So there’s a lot of technology being used in business and mean using cells. And it’s being used in a very hacky way. What I am encouraging people to do is take a step back, let’s take a step back and really think about the fundamentals of business, the fundamentals of relationships, and communication, and use that to influence how we use the tech. Right. I love tech, I’ve made a career out of tech. But again, right now we’re so bloated with so many technologies and sales and business and so many people are using these things poorly. So let’s take a step back. Let’s purge the tech for a bit and really get back to what successful outcomes are for us in business and think about what we want to do what we want to accomplish right and then use that to fuel how you use the tech and
Rolando Rosas 9:46
tell us an example what you’re saying bloated and probably not being used properly. Give us an example of what you’re talking about. So sure it may not know exactly how they’re incorrectly using it would probably recognize what you’re talking
Ronnell Richards 9:58
absolutely sales force anyone I need to say anymore. So what it sells for force or whatever other CRM that we’re using, there’s so many API’s, there’s so many add ons that are. So all this stuff that you got to be an expert on just to, to use it effectively. And so what I’m telling people is, Listen, let’s take a step back, what are you trying to do with your CRM, a lot of companies that attend my events, a lot of businesses, or people that attend my events are in small business. And they’re looking at these CRMs, like Salesforce, and they’re overwhelmed with all the options and all the things they could do. And I’m like, Listen, what is it that you want to accomplish with your CRM? Let’s start there. What is Success? Success is hate to keep that communication open with your client. Simple communication, right? So let’s pump the brakes and all the other stuff and just focus on building a machine that keeps us in front of them simple things like simple newsletters, reminders, things like that, just so that we’re touching our clients and then build from there. So again, the problem is not the technology. It’s not the technology. It really is. It’s how it’s how we use it. Listen, I can take a screwdriver and pounding a nail, right. But that’s probably not the best use of a screwdriver should probably use a hammer for that. I’m saying so like, it’s really about understanding the tools. And because we’ve been in this weird artificial bubble for the last couple of years, it’s influenced the way that we do business. And it’s gotten us away from the fundamentals of successful business and sales, which by the way, gentleman has not changed and never will, technology changes and evolves, cultures evolve. But those fundamentals of communication and business and salesmanship have not changed in 100 years and years, and they won’t change in the future.
Rolando Rosas 11:52
I love that Ronnell. That’s today’s pro tip numero uno, go ahead and hit it. Alright. Here comes a pro tip. Ronnell hit us up with pro tip numero uno.
Ronnell Richards 12:10
Fundamentally, business is not in sales, it has not changed, it won’t change, technology evolves, cultures have changed as well. But the fundamentals of business and salesmanship do not. And so I believe that we need to get back to those fundamentals. And really focus on creating solutions and building relationships, and not let the technology get in the way of doing that which that’s I’m gonna give you a bonus pro tip. A lot of folks love it. A lot of times we’re using technology as not as opposed to using it as a conduit to connecting relationships. We’re using it in a way that creates barriers between communications and relationships. So there’s your pro tip number two, if you are using technology, which we all are, think about this, let this be your guide. What I’m about to do, does it build a bridge or a conduit to my customer? Or does it create a barrier between me and the customer? Think about that.
Rolando Rosas 13:05
Drop in knowledge. I gotta love that guy gets a clap. Well,
Ronnell Richards 13:09
I used to that. Yeah.
Dave Kelly 13:13
All right. Hey, Ronnell I saw your LinkedIn post about your beloved Buckeyes. Sorry about that. But how many championships do they have now? Eight or nine.
Ronnell Richards 13:23
So, Dave, I thought this was gonna be a real fun conversation. And that was up until that point, like I was really enjoying what
Dave Kelly 13:31
we have to go to get here. Yeah,
Rolando Rosas 13:34
people want the emotion to they want to they want to understand the true right now what’s going
Dave Kelly 13:40
on, listen, but the reason why I bring that up is because in that same post, you mentioned how January is typically the slowest month of the year. So how do you and your team prepare to manage slow periods and business? And do you have any advice for others who might be facing similar challenges for January?
Ronnell Richards 14:00
Yeah, so first, accept it. Accept it, it’s real, it is a real thing. So whether it’s January or July, like there are these time periods in business where there’s gonna be a wall, because either people are in vacations with their families, or in January, they’re slow to get back to the office, and they’re focused on other things. Number one, accepted as being real, it’s real. And once you accept that, and there’s understand this is going to happen, you can better prepare for it as funnel building is critical. It’s crucial, guys, you gotta know this is going to happen every single year, I go through the same thing with my sellers. I’m like, listen, July is going to happen. What does our funnel look like? We need to make sure that our funnels are really strong. We’re pushing for business in June, look, and that’s the reality. We’re not going to close at the same clip that we were in May in July. That’s what’s going to happen that our closing percentage is going to dip. So how do we fix that? Or how do we address that we got to have a bigger damn funnel. Got to make sure the funnel is bigger. The one thing about sales and business as you can never go wrong with planting. Always planting, always planting. And I think that’s one of the things that we get away from when we have periods of abundance, like the pandemic was for so many of us in business and tech, we get away from the fundamental planting of the seeds. I spoke about this in my book, I talk about a farmer, right like a farmer. If a farmer has a bountiful harvest, right, and you’re planting corn, you’re in Iowa, just go with me, I
Rolando Rosas 15:33
lived in Minnesota, so I know all about Iowa. So go ahead.
Ronnell Richards 15:38
So you know, you have this great harvest of all this corn and you can harvest this corn, it’s great, let’s the farmer Now sit back and like, Ah, I’m good. I don’t have to plant anymore. No, they have to keep planting. Because next year, they also have to have a harvest. And if they take their eye off the ball, they’re not going to have a harvest that next year. But in sales in business, this is what we do. We have a bountiful harvest. And then we sit back and we forget to start planning. So our issues with January or July or whatever may be in your business, because there’s always those predictable events, like some things are unpredictable pandemic was, we couldn’t predict that. But there are many things that are predictable. And you can prepare for you got to first accept it. In the end, make sure that your funnel building activities, never change, Never change your funnel building activities, make sure that you’re doubling down and you’re being honest, and real with your employees and your sellers and saying, Hey, look, this is what our situation is, this is what we’re going to do to address it to make sure that we can keep doing great business. So that would be my advice.
Dave Kelly 16:39
And I think any good salesperson realizes that they close out a strong year over here, you get that nice bonus check, you hit all your goals, you hit President’s Club winner is not going to sit back and be complacent, they understand that the process to doing that, again, one of the things that I remember, that was always really hard for me, was coming into that new year. Sometimes my sales leaders didn’t have a quota for the sales team yet. So we have a group of people. And we’re like, Alright, I have to work my ass off. I’m not even sure if my territory is the same. I don’t really know what my quota is. So you have some of these things, and you’re waiting for management. What kind of advice would you give to a seller at the beginning of their fiscal year that maybe doesn’t even have a quota yet? And there’s still some unanswered questions. How can that person stay focused to be successful?
Ronnell Richards 17:34
Well, first, you can only control what you can control. I have this friend of mine, he always says this one thing and I’ve lived my life by it, I just didn’t have the terminology to put to it. But he says run to the truth. Right. And so that’s what I’ve always done in my career. I didn’t know that’s what it was. But I want to accept the truth. I want to accept whatever it is, once I accept it, and the faster I can accept it, the faster I can make effective change or impact the outcomes that I want. So anyway, back to my piece of advice. I think that our issues sometimes in controlling or having more control over these types of situations is that the way that salespeople are operating their sales business is fundamentally flawed. Hear me out on this, okay for it, I want to hear so you know, we get on the hamster wheel of sales. And that’s because it’s part of the culture. It’s what our companies tell us to do. Right? Oh, sell this. And then next month, it’s like a marathon of Sprint’s. And what happens a lot of times in this is we’re not really building those solid relationships with our existing customers with the people that we’re closing. And it’s not your fault. It’s not your fault, because your company tells you move on to the next one. What I’m trying to change in the minds of sellers, and helped educate them and help them to understand that these people that you’re selling these relationships, you can and should own them. You can’t divorce yourself from that customer. If you do, you’ll do it at your own peril, you’re going to stay on that hamster wheel of the marathon of Sprint’s with longtime successful sellers know those that put in the years put in the decades and maintain success is that those relationships that they brought to those companies, they learned how to own those relationships, and to never fully divorce themselves from it. And what I think is that when you go about your business of sales and understanding that you’re building a sales business, and you’re not just a salesperson, you’re building a sales business. In that manner, what’s going to happen is you’re going to find that all of these challenges that we’re talking about, get a whole lot easier. Yeah, your quota changes, the company changes or whatever, all these things, but you’ve built this great foundation of people that you’ve done business with, you’ve built a sales business for yourself that you can all least call on for either more business or referrals or anything like that. So I feel like, fundamentally, there is a flaw, especially in corporate sales, and how corporate sellers see their business. And they see themselves as sellers. And as lone wolves, much like I did earlier in my career and not as someone who’s building a sales business, when you think about it from that perspective, it changes the game, it changes.
Rolando Rosas 20:27
Let me ask you about that. Because I was in corporate America as well. Is that a feature or a bug in the system? Or is that something that as you’re working in the corporate environment, you don’t see yourself as able to take ownership of that so that the client is yours? that the client is the business? It’s theirs? It’s not mine? Yeah. Is that again? Is that a feature a bug? Or does it just require a whole new paradigm shift? Based on what you’re talking about?
Ronnell Richards 20:56
Wow, what a great question. So I really go into depth in this in my book, so accompany the company, they’re doing what they should be doing. Right? Listen, I’ve sat in that seat, I sit in that seat today, I understand that most of my sales people that they’re gonna come and they’re gonna go, right. And so I want people to be invested in me, my brand, me being in the company, right. And so I build a system that helps that to happen, which says, Hey, seller, listen, go sell something. And hey, then go hand it off, such as, go get me another one. So I have the opportunity to own that relationship, not the seller. What I’m telling sellers is like, Hey, listen, I get it. That’s what your company is saying. And they should say that to you. I know I told myself. But what’s in your best interest is to never fully divorce yourself from that customer. Because what happens is, if you become a trusted adviser for them, they will become an advocate for you, which means they will do business with you at the company that you’re at. Now. They’ll do business with you, the company you go to in the future, and whatever else that you choose to do, because you’ve earned that advisor status. And that is where sellers miss the opportunity to build a sales business. Now, listen, I understand. Sometimes that puts you at slightly at odds with your company, I get it. Yeah, if you want to build a sales business, this is what you got to do. Now, I’m not saying that you have to do the job if everyone else that’s involved in the company, like once you sell something now you’re the account manager, you’re the project manager. No, I’m not saying that at all. But I’m saying that you should never divorce yourself. And you should always be the conduit. Right? If you want to be a trusted adviser, you have to really go in deep with these customers. And they got to understand that hey, look, they got to feel like that’s my guy. That’s my girl, and you’re bringing value to their business. So when they need something, they’re like, Hey, let me hit up Dave. And Dave is the solution guy. What I learned guys how I learned this the hard way is I left earlier in my career, I was killing it. Like most of the lot of you sellers out there killing it in the tech sales world. And I left one company went to another company. And I’m like, Yeah, I’m gonna bring my customers on over with me. Because I’m like, what happened? They love happy. Like, gave me the runaround. I started calling them and I’d say, hey, look, Rolando. I was over there. Now. I’m over here now. And yeah, can we have a meeting and you know, we’re doing some great stuff, and you’d go over and meet with you Rolando, and you’d meet with me because I was a nice guy. So you’d sit down with me, and I’m like, okay, boom. All right, here’s my problem. And then I wait for that proposal to come back. Come back, then come back. What I learned through that process of multiple customers going through this is that what I learned is that I didn’t really own the relationship. My company owned the relationship. They were the trusted adviser, not me. So I’m saying, if I had that trusted advisor status with them, then I wouldn’t have had to ask them, they’re gonna be like, Ronnell, where are you at? Okay, we need to be there. And so when I built my companies, after going through that, and I’ve always had that as a focus, listen, we need to be advocates for our customers, we need to make sure that we reach that trusted advisor status, because I knew that’s what will keep people with us long term. And I encouraged myself so things I’m telling you guys right now, I told my sellers to do the same thing. Now. They didn’t always take my advice. Some of them would sell want to move on to the next one. Cool. At the end of day my company was still going to deliver so we’re going to still earn those people as advocates, but as sellers have an opportunity to do this. And this is something that I’ve seen now 25 years in business, I’ve seen the very best of sellers get this and guess what, here’s nothing that happens when you really learn how to create a sales business like this. It gets easier because that hamster wheel the Marathon of Sprint’s is exhausting, it’s exhausting. And it’s not sustainable. Right? Right. That’s where you get those people that are like okay, yeah, sales I used to kill it, but now they’re in in something else, then went to marketing. They weren’t the account management,
Rolando Rosas 25:04
Ronnell, you bring up a good point that I recently heard on a TED talk. I can’t remember this gentleman’s name, but he was talking about how the Navy SEALs, look at this exactly what you just said, if you have the option as a Navy SEAL team, to pick between the guy that’s killing it, a plus, always knocking out of the park, and is just a stellar performer versus the more reliable steady hand. Which of the two, do you think the Navy SEALs prefer?
Ronnell Richards 25:38
Oh, man, absolutely. Number two,
Rolando Rosas 25:41
that’s exactly what they said. And it’s because the trust is going to be there. The steadiness is there, and they’re reliable. And when I heard that question, I would have thought it was a trick question. But they are in a very high pressure situation. And they know that a consistent, reliable performer is the go to person rather than the person that’s killing it, because you’re going to get a lot of negative side effects that come with the guy that smashing the goals all the time. And they know that consistently, so now are idle forever, or they’ve been bringing in people into the Navy SEALs that fit that profile, that second person isn’t that some. So the smashing goals person is not probably the best person to have on a team is the steady hand that’s reliable and trusted, like you said,
Dave Kelly 26:36
just wanted to fit in there. Sometimes company culture dictates what they expect out of the salespeople. I’ve worked with an insurance organization, business insurance, door to door selling, they did have niche markets. So they would identify smaller businesses that were manufacturing with metal and plastics say, and their company culture was you run a million miles an hour, you fill up that pipeline, you close as many deals as you can you don’t sleep, you’re working 80 plus hours a week, burnout comes so fast, I worked with people that were killing it doing so well making beyond imaginable money. In my mind, I couldn’t believe some of these people were bringing home three, four or $500,000 a year selling business insurance to small businesses, and they could not last they were great. And then they would just up and leave. And then what happened was, the clients no longer had their go to guy that promise them the world, they lasted 24 months, 36 months. So now they don’t have their specialists that they put all this trust in, they replace it with someone new that comes in that. So now that relationship is only with the company, they don’t have that relationship with the individual anymore. And then they run that next salesperson ragged. Give him hell, and they just rinse, wash, repeat. And they just would do that every 24 to 36 months. And from an outsider looking in, I’m gonna thinking how are you going to own relationships, other than poaching the business when you do leave, it was just like the company wasn’t giving them an opportunity to really honor those relationships that were being created. Because that person was just go get that prospect, close that deal, hold on to that relationship, but go find more. And one of the things that was so frustrating with the people I talked to that work for them was the company did not value holding that relationship. They were just like, if you want to hold that relationship, now you need to work 81 hours a week to hold that because that’s just a recreational activity, they treated it like there was no value in that they would be fine. What do you say to organizations that are just pushing so hard and saying, listen, that relationship is secondary. That’s not our sales model. We don’t see the value in that. And again, this was insurance where, in my opinion, there’s a lot of value in that trust. What do you say to individuals that are jumping into jobs like
Ronnell Richards 29:16
that? You know, I’ll speak to both audiences. First. The companies, I don’t presume to know what their business model is and what success is for them, or I wouldn’t ever assume that. So like some of them, it’s, their goal is to turn and burn and that’s okay. I’m not judging. If you want to be Coca Cola, you want to be Harley Davidson. You want to last 100 years you can’t run business like that. But if you want to make a gazillion dollars, and then you know and go sit on your yacht in five years, then maybe that works. So I’m not one to judge do or shoot now. My audience and who I’m talking to primarily is I’m talking to the individual contributor. I’m talking to those sellers and my advice for them is I’m trying to Teach them how to build a successful sales business how to last decades in this profession and not burnout. And so first you got to understand that you bring value and your relationship with any employer, it’s a business relationship that goes both ways, right? To bring you value, you got to bring them value, right. And so if your values don’t align, you got to balance. It’s just like a personal relationship man, like, let’s you can get married to somebody, and it’s felt good and everything, like I’m missing, this is what I care about. And this is what you care about. We’re not really aligned and, and we can’t work it out. And then you get a divorce, like it is what it is. And that’s okay, you move on. But what I’m trying to do is empower sellers help sellers to understand that let’s this is a business or potentially a business that you’re running here. And one of the things I’ve always loved about sales is it’s so entrepreneurial, when you understand that, when you lean into the fact that you’re building your own business within a business, man, you can be successful, long term on somebody else’s dime, I got to tell you guys, the best job I ever had, was building an organization for a company a whole bunch of years back before I started my company, and they gave me a budget, and I got to go out there and do stuff on their dime and the things that I learned I took to my own business. So what I’m telling you is sellers, you get your salary, you’re building your business, someone’s paying you to, you’re helping them but you’re you can build your own business inside of that. I look at building teams, and especially sales teams, almost like a basketball team. The most successful sales teams I’ve ever been on are diverse. You can’t have a team full of killers. And it’s funny like in sales. That’s what like the goal is I want to all these eight players. No, you don’t.
Rolando Rosas 31:47
I want to test the bronze on the team.
Ronnell Richards 31:49
It doesn’t work, man. Yeah, exactly. I gotta have my LeBron, I gotta have my star shooter. And then I’ve got to have my distributor that’s really about having balance. So I like having to your point, those folks that bring that consistency, that discipline, but then I got to have one of those superstars. It’s a pain in the butt every now and then I gotta have one of those guys. And then I also got to have this is one where people miss, I gotta have that young gun. I gotta have one person on my team that doesn’t know anything. But they
Rolando Rosas 32:21
run into a brick wall for me. Yes, sir.
Ronnell Richards 32:23
Was the reason why they don’t have limitations. Because those experienced people that you just talked about those consistent people, what will hold them back is their experience and their consistency, they can’t see big, they’ve seen it before they know what they know. And they’re going to just they’re going to perform like this. But when you have that young gun in there that doesn’t know any better go outperform those folks, and they will help you to raise the bar. Because, again, they don’t know any better. It’s been multiple times in my career where I’ve hired someone straight out of college or whatever, that just didn’t really know our business. But they had that desire to work. They have good work ethic. And they had some intangibles, and I said, go get it. And they went and got it. And they would kick all of the veterans butts and the veterans. But let me tell you where I learned that guys, I learned that from my very first sales experience. When I was 1819 years old, I went to work at a jewelry store, worst jewelry store in this chain that I worked for that they had 20 stores, we were the very worst, the last. And I walked in, there’s a bunch of complacent people, and they told me what we could do and what we couldn’t do. And then I wouldn’t kick their butt for like 10 months straight. And all of a sudden, we weren’t the last store anymore. And then eventually, we were in the middle of the pack store a year later, right? I’m not giving myself all the credit there. I had some good coaching and a sales leader there that believed in me and gave me the opportunity. But that’s where I learned that you got to have that young gun to change the temperature in the room.
Rolando Rosas 33:52
Yeah, what took what was it say? What happened when you took the bottom performing store to the middle of the pack? That’s a massive improvement from the higher ups? What kind of reception was that? They just thought, Oh, we did great marketing. So it’s not attributable to your efforts and your team? Where did they come back and say Ronnell you’ve done a hell of a job man. Show us the way.
Ronnell Richards 33:52
Just the beauty of sales, right? Like it’s so quantifiable, like the numbers don’t lie. So what happened is I became the youngest sales manager in that company, and the only African American sales manager in that company in the state of Utah. So I’m 21 years old. I’m a manager there. And my peers were like 40s and 50s at the time, because this is an old chain. In fact, I like to talk about them a lot because they’ve been around since 1914. And so many great lessons that I learned and how businesses can last that long like they’re over 100 years old. Anyway, so yeah, that’s what happened. I became a sales manager successful for them and then moved on from that to tech,
Rolando Rosas 35:01
you know what your trajectory sounds a lot like mine, I started my young career at Philip Morris, which is now known as Altria. So if you’ve heard of Marlboro Kraft Foods now called Mondelez, I was the youngest area manager at Philip Morris International, which is another division. I think it was 26. At the time, the next youngest person was 40. And it was hard, personally was hard, because, like you said, I was the young gun that was promoted from within. You know what my boss told me at the time, I think it’s comical. He said to me, whatever you learned over there, we’re not using it here. He viewed me as a threat. And when I look back on it, I’m like, I don’t want your job, I want your boss’s job. I’m not after you. But he viewed me as a threat. And he made sure on day one, that he would put his stamp and he’s like, this is the marker, you’re not going to cross. I don’t care how young you are. And so the reason I’m saying that, and I asked you that question was that sometimes when you’re the young gun, you’re gonna get that because a lot of the old guard that they don’t want you to show them up. And I’m just encouraging all the young guns that are out there to stay true to who you are. And that’s why I asked you that question, Ronnell how was management or other people receptive to once they like, young black guy, same for me. And when in Minnesota, there was out of 100 people that worked in that division, it was only three of us that were brown or black. When I went to the next division, same thing, two or three of us in the entire management section for football. And so it made it even doubly hard.
Ronnell Richards 36:44
Rolando, we’re gonna go deep here. So I only do real talk. It is what it is you talking about? viewed as a threat? Yeah, I’ve always been viewed as a threat. I’ve always been viewed as intimidating at times, even though my confidence can be viewed by others as intimidating or arrogant. And whatever BS it is, they’re uncomfortability, with someone that looks like me certain positions. So let me tell you how the story really begins. Okay, for the job that I’m telling you about. When I applied for that job, I went into another location. Rolando, thank you for your kind introduction of me and talking about how well I dressed everything. Right now. I’m like, athleisure guy, but for the majority of my career, I’ve been always suited and booted. And there’s a reason for that. That is to control perception, okay, because there’s always going to be negative things that are assumed. So always a control perception. That is something I was taught at a very young age, I’m a kid that was doing public speaking from the
Rolando Rosas 37:49
second that is a pro tip, that is a 100%. Pro tip, Ori give us another pro tip, for a pro tip. Ronnell tell us what should a young professional do, especially if they are black or brown, let’s just say it the way it should be. And they go into corporate America straight out of college or wherever they should be. What are the essentials that they should be doing when it comes to dress in the workplace?
Ronnell Richards 38:20
I think that today, it sounds and these really casual environments, we’re told otherwise. But I will tell you this just you should always be thinking about how you can control perception and the narrative and understand that people are going to make assumptions of you, whether you like it or not. So if anything you can do to influence that to make sure that their initial perception of you is positive, you should do period. Now that will give you the opportunity to prove that your worth and prove that you’re more than just that. But I know in this world that we live in right now, people are really like scared to talk about dress and perception and the idea of for lack of a better term, manipulating that somewhat, but I feel like it’s crucial. Because for many of us, if you can’t get past that first initial perception, you’re never going to have the opportunity to prove the value and worth that you have.
Rolando Rosas 39:14
You gotta open the door. And I gotta tell you, I’ve been in a share of backup. I applaud what you’re saying, because we are all human, right? And no matter how PC we want to be, and how we want to be diverse and we want to be equal. There are realities in the workplace. And there are still views in corporate America that don’t align themselves with where we want to be, in a way to overcome of some of that is by Yeah, you got to go the extra mile. That’s the reality I that was for me. I had to work two times as hard as everybody else just to be on the same field. And I’m going to echo what you’re saying because I had a mentor when I came in, he said exactly what you said. And that will was in 1997, when he gave me this advice. And it’s still true today because he just repeated it. He said to me, Rolando, you can be the CEO here at this company. But it first starts with what people think about you. And that’s the game that corporate America internally right play. And the first way is you got to let people know you mean business, and that you got to play that part. And part of it is what people see with their eyes before you even speak. And then people will sit down with me, Rolando, let’s talk about accounts. Let’s talk about national accounts. Let’s talk about your succession plan.
Ronnell Richards 40:35
I think that what we’re talking about, and what I want people to take from this is it doesn’t matter what your plight is what you’re dealing with, like, you have to accept the truth. That’s my superpower. I told you guys about running to the truth before. I’m a kid from Ohio to grew up in Utah. So I know what it means to be 1% and stared at every place that you go, it is what it is. You got to accept whatever your whatever you’re dealing with, you got to accept the facts, accept the truth. And then once you accept that, now you can go ahead and put action in place to get the outcomes that you want. I’m an outcome guy who gives a shit about wasted I don’t wanna waste time talking about BS, we have an objective, I have outcomes. How do I get there? Nothing else matters. Finishing that story. Because I don’t want to just to be like, hey, look, I went in. I worked hard and look what happened to me. Okay, I’m gonna start. So here’s the real beginning of the story. The story behind the story. I told you guys what happened when I got in there and I kick their asses and I ended up getting promoted and all that good stuff. Here’s how it started. I went into a another store. This is 18 year old Ronnell l went into another store before I got hired at that store went to another store. This is 9695. Yeah, okay. I walk in there. And I’m a sharp guy. I was a sharp kid. What you see I was born 30 years old people will walk in with my suit into this store walking with my suit. I have a little briefcase of something or whatever. I have a resume. My father taught me how to do a resume when I was seven years old. Like my parents. Were very intentional on a typewriter, right? No, I had a computer. I didn’t have toys. But I had a computer ever since I was like six years old. That’s the type of guy my dad is. Okay. So I didn’t really know. I didn’t have transformers and he mans and all that stuff like, other than no doubt, but I had what I needed. I had encyclopedias, man, go guys, Google that. I had encyclopedias, and I always had a computer when no one else had computers anyway. So I walk into the store and my bag, my resumes go up traduce myself and it’s going to apply for a job. And the guy my resume, by the way, they were hiring told me they weren’t handed the guy my resume. He was the seller never forget his name. Never forget his name because I went on to kick his ass once I was never liked him. Anyway, okay, there’s no one. He’s not listening. His name is Zack. Alright, so anyway, so I give him my resume. He threw it in the garbage. Oh, my God. Here’s how I know that he threw it in the garbage. Not only do you throw in the garbage, he made disparaging comments. Here’s the thing. I learned this much later. Here’s how I learned it. So here’s what happened. I’m in the store, drop off my resume. And I leave. Just so happens that Kathy and I will say her name because she deserves to be acknowledged Kathy Morgan, who was the great granddaughter of the founder of that chain. She was in the store at the time doing books. She didn’t work in the store. She was just doing books on that day. She saw what happened saw the dude take my resume, put it in the garbage. And she faxed it over to Google that two guys fast. It was an old technology. He faxed it over to Jeff Cutler who was the manager of another store and said hey look this guy just came in he was pretty sharp you should talk to him. Keep in mind this is the shittiest store in the whole company.
Rolando Rosas 44:12
That’s where they’re gonna put you and that’s at the bottom performing store now than the best the bottom the bottom you can’t screw up at the bottom right and so
Ronnell Richards 44:24
yeah, she’s so she does that Jeff calls me a day or two later on I don’t know what it was calls me I go in interview with him boom of course get the job and the rest is history. But that’s how it started it’s important to know that’s something that because I want people to know the see all aspects of it right now. What happened is it Jeff was family to like that’s the thing with these generational companies whether it is Hershey, you’re more Kansas boy this family all through this thing. I learned this story much later, fortunately, because if I learned it earlier, it probably would have really pissed me off but I learned it I don’t know a couple years. later, that’s what I hit actually transpired. I became friends with multiple people in their family. But I guess the lesson in all that is that, listen again, you can only control what you can control and even when you can control it, sometimes it doesn’t go your way. But my attention to detail and perception, even at that age made an impact if I walked in there and and I was wearing like Donald who was who was popular back then across Japan or whatever, just wearing what I would wear out with my homeboys on the street or whatever it is hanging out. That would have never happened. But I went in there at 18 years old looking, suited and booted, and someone else took notice and right person
Rolando Rosas 45:41
really?
Ronnell Richards 45:42
Yeah, because it put me in a better position, right, put me in the right position. And yeah, here we are. 25 years later. So
Dave Kelly 45:49
there you go. Oh, you said you try to control perception a little bit suited and booted. Some people your some people will have their biases, and they’re not going to change but you know what, you prepared for that and someone else had that positive perception. They liked what they saw. They probably heard you’re talking. So that’s pretty amazing. That was their name Kathy.
Ronnell Richards 46:10
Yep. Kathy,
Dave Kelly 46:11
that Kathy had faxed it. Was that a word? You said to fax? I
Ronnell Richards 46:14
did fax? Google? I know you’re too young for that. Right.
Dave Kelly 46:18
I’m not too young. Thanks. Thanks. But no, thanks. Well,
Ronnell Richards 46:23
I am too I don’t even know I was I. Yeah, I mean, she’s, she’s screenshot it. And I needed to change that because it’s making me sound old. So we’ll take
Dave Kelly 46:32
a run out. I know that we don’t have too much more time with you. I gotta tell you, I’m enjoying your new book, Shut the Hell Up and Sell every time I say it, I smile and laugh. Well, I know. And I have laughed about it a couple of times. He thinks it’s hilarious. So we’re dying to know, how did you come up with the title for this book?
Ronnell Richards 46:55
It just came to me guys, it sums up my overall philosophy on sales, which is, listen, we talk too much. We talk too much we want to be the star of the show. What you learn, after years in this game is that I win when I make you the star, the customer, not me. And a lot of what I teach and talk about in the book, these are just lessons that I learned over the years because I thought that I was the star and I had to dominate this sales thing, right. And I won by doing it that way. But I didn’t win long term. I want short term, long term, I didn’t win. And so what I’m teaching people in the book is how to build a sales business, how to win long term, not just short term, and you’re gonna win long term, my sudden your damn mouth, really understanding what matters the most to people sitting across the table from you, is divorcing you from the conversation that has to be about them, you got to understand what’s going on in their world, you got to know what they care about. You got to know what their ambitions are, you got to know what their fears are. And then once you understand that, and only then now you can bring in solutions to help them impact what they care the most about not just your product or service. Because when you can make impact and what people care about the most. That’s how you build relationships. Right? I don’t care whether that’s business or personal. It’s the same thing. If you’re married, if you got a spouse, like when you guys first met, it was like, Oh, he’s cute. She’s cute. All right, okay, you had to get past that. But in sales, we don’t. There’s just a whole bunch of cute, and there’s a whole bunch of me. But if you’ve been in a relationship for a long time, but like I have, you got to understand that it can’t just be about me, it’s got to be about that person. And there’s no such thing as 50 I’m gonna you guys relationship advice. Now. The 50. Like, there’s no, it’s got to be about that person. And then hope and then it listen to this thing that Michelle Obama the other day on, I think the daily podcast or New York Times or something like that. She’s talking about her book and her relationships. She’s like, there’s never enough the like, sometimes I’m given 100 and he’s given nothing, or sometimes
Rolando Rosas 49:05
Iraq is given zero. Yeah, well, okay,
Ronnell Richards 49:08
maybe maybe the leader of the free world. I got nothing, you know. But you know, the point being is that business relationships aren’t dissimilar to other types of relationships. And when we really think about them from that standpoint, it changes the way we go about them. And and what I’m telling people is that that’s how you do it if you want to be a successful business seller slash entrepreneur because that’s how I look at sales as like an entrepreneur. And so it’s like combining salesmanship with entrepreneurship, which again, salesmanship, to me is that’s the business or corporate equivalent of entrepreneurship.
Rolando Rosas 49:50
I love it. I love it. I love all that awesome knowledge. I just want to ask you, Ronnell, you talked about funnel and I really liked that. So I want to ask you, in less than 60 seconds, how you would advise? Like you’re saying to sellers? How will you advise them to set up a funnel? What would you tell them?
Ronnell Richards 50:12
Okay, I’m gonna go with with someone that’s an existing business. This, I want to start with who you have the best outcomes for Who are you having successful with today to look at your business? And a lot of times this is sure I got 60 seconds. Okay? A lot of times people where they go wrong as they cast wide nets, right. When it comes to funnel building, I want you to niche down I want you to look at who do I serve at the various high, very highest level? Who am I knocking it out the part with whoever that is, understand them intimately and build on that find more of those people, we have more tools and technology than we ever had to build database. So build your database on success and stop casting these white estimates we’re doing now.
Rolando Rosas 50:56
I like that. I like that he’ll hold up second.
Ronnell Richards 51:02
Time The click that was great.
Rolando Rosas 51:04
Yeah, I got the buttons right here. So now the next thing I want to share my screen with you. It’s ChatGPT, which everybody’s talking about. But what is the best advice to sales? People when building a funnel? Give me five bullet points. I don’t want an essay. Oh, let’s see what Eddie says. Oh, look at that. Number one, identify your target audience, you kind of said that. Clearly define who you’re trying to sell to. So what you just said. This will help you tailor your messaging and marketing efforts to appeal to your specific audience niching down right. Define your product or service. Again, clearly articulate the benefits of your product or service and how it addresses the needs and wants of your target audience. Almost what you just said that was that
Ronnell Richards 52:05
this is why robots aren’t going to replace me. Go ahead.
Rolando Rosas 52:09
That’s what we’re trying to find. Who would you rather trust a 25 year expert or Eddie the Chatbot. Create a plan for lead generation develop a Strategy for attracting potential customers to your funnel. This could include tactics such as content marketing, social media, email marketing, number four, nurture leads through the funnel. A little bit of what you were saying in our during our conversation. Once you’ve attracted potential customers to your funnel, it’s important to nurture them through the process of becoming a paying customer. This could involve providing valuable the word valuable again, content, answering questions, addressing any objection, they may have. Lastly, optimize and iterate as you implement your sales funnel. Pay close attention to how well it is working. Look for areas where you can optimize and improve and be willing to make changes as needed. What say you, Ronnell? Are you better than Eddie?
Ronnell Richards 53:06
Like 100 times, here’s why. If I were a robot, that would probably work. If we were robots, it would probably work. But we’re not. Here’s what sellers are missing. And what they get from me, the why they why I’ve trained battleship probably 1000s of sellers by this point. Here’s something that’s consistent across the board. When sellers get trained by trainers like me, we come in to your company and we train you and we leave and then when we leave, and we give you tactical advice and direction just like the Chatbot just spit out. We leave and the people that were successful, they’re still successful. And people that were not successful. Oh, they’re still not successful, like nothing, nothing really changes, right? So the reason nothing changes is they don’t understand the why they can’t connect with the why of doing these things that I’m telling you to do. And this is what I really wanted to accomplish in the book is helping people to better understand and connect with philosophy behind it so that it can fuel their actions. Brief, quick story. Well, I was a kid and this is actually in my book as well. And I was when I was a kid. There’s a scar. Can you guys see the scar? That this scar across my there it is. That’s a scar over my eyebrow. I got that scar when I was five years old because I ran into the corner of a wall in the kitchen of my mother’s little apartment. I’m not on purpose. But see, here’s the thing as a kid, what happens when you run around the house? You run around the house and your mom says what she says stop running. Oh yeah, don’t run around the house. Start running. And then but okay, you got me I’m good. And then she turns her back and I’m running around the house run around now. Hey, stop it stop runner. Okay, mom and mom. Okay, okay. All right. The next day when she’s Look, I’m running around the house till I hit that damn corner in the wall and busted my head open and blood came down my face. And I had a traumatic experience. And now I understood why. It wasn’t just someone that’s an authority figure telling me, they stopped running because something bad can happen. No, there’s emotional impact, I understand the why to fuel the action. So you guys know what I never ever did run around the house ever again, for my whole life to this day, don’t run around. A quarter. So what I tried to do is really connect people with and this is something that a robot can’t do connect people with their why with the philosophy behind the tactical that fuels execution, right? This is why so instead of just say, hey, look, make your 30 phone calls. Here’s why. You got to understand why making 30 phone calls matters. And here’s the emotional impact. Here’s the impact to you. In making that or and both positive and negative. Here’s the positive here’s a negative happens with that. I feel that when people can connect with that, and so far, robots can’t teach that better than I can. They’ll be more successful in sales and building that sells business. Also your robot did what so many people are doing in business and sales right right now is just is distilling people down to avatars. Avatar, this is my customer avatar. I’m thinking way deeper than that. I’m thinking way more intimate than that. Because at the end of the day, most of the people that are watching your show, they don’t sell 1000 people a month. If they sell five people a month, they’re a rockstar. So if I sell five people a month, and I’m a rockstar, why am I distilling people down to a basic avatar? No, I need to know Dave Dave’s my guy like Dave has been buying from me for years and mean they vibe, and I can knock it out the park with him like I’m given Dave, great outcomes and great results. I need more Dave’s. So what does Dave look like? What does Dave care about? What’s his specific job? I need to know that and now I use these great database tools that we have to find more Dave’s and prospect that people just like Dave, instead of going to Dave and Rolando and Ron L and whomever else, Lorenzo, what’s out there is going to everybody, I need to go, I need to find more Dave’s. So that’s what a robot can’t do better than me. teach that?
Rolando Rosas 57:22
Awesome. clap for that. I think Eddie has to go back to school and learn from a pro like Ronnell. Maybe he could sit down and get some lectures from Ronnell.
Ronnell Richards 57:36
No, because because it’s at some point, that robot will be able to take my job. So I don’t want to only a matter of time, we know this right? We’ve seen. Yeah, we had
Rolando Rosas 57:49
a professor on at the end of the year, who came to us and just talking about she actually trains robots, and they’re getting really good at interacting with people. And she told us that people in her line of work, because she works with nursing homes and whatnot. The people that interact with them right now, see, the robot is more trustworthy, even more than their own kids. So it’s scary how good they are becoming, they’re obviously not a replacement for humans and some of the human interaction. But man, it could get really scary. The next version of this I hear will go from 175 billion parameters to over a trillion. And that’s later in the year, that’s supposed to happen. So it’s gonna be wild.
Ronnell Richards 58:35
So you’re saying I have at least a year left of having a job.
Rolando Rosas 58:42
Or that or you become one of the guys that trains the models, the algorithm models that are built in, because you’ve probably heard this, that the two flaws right now with these models that they put in there. One is the bias, because most of the people that are there from MIT, they’re from Harvard, they’re from Stanford. So that’s one of the reasons why Google had not launched their own version of their AI bot is that they’re holding this back to see if they can clean some of that up because right now there’s some inaccuracies as well as biases built into the some of the responses.
Ronnell Richards 59:16
Scary guys. Skynet is upon us.
Rolando Rosas 59:21
Hold on, I got a button for that when that one gets run out. Before we wrap I’d want to give you the opportunity to tell us whatever’s on your mind. Anything else that you want before we wrap today?
Ronnell Richards 59:37
I haven’t said enough.
Rolando Rosas 59:39
Give you the full opportunity in case we miss something that was on your bro
Ronnell Richards 59:45
you know? Yeah, just thank you guys for the opportunity. Thank you for the platform. I’m always appreciative of anytime anyone feels like anything that comes out of my mouth could be of some value to them or their audience. I never take that for granted and I appreciate that. that anyone out there that cares to know more about me or what I’m actually doing, how can people get you go to the website, go to Ron l richards.com. Go to business and bourbon dot live, go to shut the hell up and sell.com come out to the events come out and hang out. Bring your books. If you come up to my event, you don’t have a book. We’re gonna have a problem. I’m just kidding. I’ll probably have a book on me so I can sell you right there. Okay, here’s the book. Anyway. Yeah, that’s it again, thank you guys for the opportunity. And if you guys heard me or saw me on this, let me know. Let me know. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Rolando Rosas 1:00:35
So today, we’ve been talking to Ronnell. Richards. And if you like what you’ve been hearing, I encourage you to check out some of the other past guests on the podcast what the tech folks like Shereena Kushner have data canopy, and you could go check that out on our website@circuitloops.com or wherever you consume your podcasts. And we will see you there. Thanks again for tuning in.
Outro 1:01:01
Thanks for listening to What The Teck? Be sure to check out our other episodes featuring awesome tech and amazing guests. Find them on circuitloops.com or wherever you consume your favorite podcasts.
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