Rolando Rosas 7:56
Well, I think I think you’re being very kind to Mr. Dimon. Because he makes a very strong statement about those people that are working from home, a are not at work. Those are his words, they’re not at work. And he says, they’re not hustling, which I’ve worked from home, and a lot of people work from home. And if if the thinking is, and I think I don’t know, if it’s a generational thing, and you could speak to that you’ve sprinkled yourself through different organizations, if it’s a generational thing, where folks that are maybe a little older, think that you have to be physically present in the office to actually get work done. And if you’re not there, then maybe you’re goofing off, or you have it better than everybody else.
Steve Cadigan 8:36
Right? Well, listen, Rolando, I want to start off polite. But if we want to throw the gloves off and get a little aggro here, I mean, you could say, there, there will be some who listen to what he’s saying and say it’s tone deaf, he’s just tone deaf, to the reality of I think what the workforce is telling us now in most of the sectors that I’m seeing around the world is, I do not want to forfeit my freedom of managing my time that I had to be able to grocery shop in the middle of the week, instead of staying in line on Sundays, to be able to go get a haircut at a time that works for me or be able to take a break when I want to take a break. And what I haven’t seen him do or other leaders that are saying everyone come back to the office, I think Morgan Stanley’s doing the same thing. I haven’t seen them say, look at the data showing us that we’re not as productive or we’re not creating as much value. I haven’t seen that data to demonstrate that. And I think if you’re in a leadership role, and you’re asking people to come back to work, and you don’t have a good explanation to why beyond the old because a rationale. I think you’re in for some backlash. And the people that are voting first and it’s interesting to get your perspective on this, but I think the people that are voting first are the people who don’t have a mortgage that don’t have expenses and tuitions and things that they have to pay. They can they can relocate quickly and do or do different things. Those are the people that are gonna move quickly the ones that have Have some of those other financial burdens are going to still vote, but it’s going to take them a little time to sort of unplug their, their current circumstances, you may be changed schools change locations and, and change jobs. But I firmly believe that’s going to happen, people are going to want to see more people changing. Because of the newfound realities of loving working from home and loving the independence and the freedom than we’ve ever seen before. I call it the great career migration. It’s just, I just say something
Rolando Rosas 10:27
about that I heard you on one of your TikTok Talk about how there is a big migration coming, especially to the United States where we self identify with work probably more than other countries. And our work is US and US his work. And it’s hard to take them both apart. And you know, in other countries, like for Germany, for example, I heard and because we we have companies that we work with in Germany, it is not uncommon to everybody’s gone to the office by five, and enjoying themselves at a bar or pub, wherever outdoors, with others with loved ones with friends. Were here. In some places, it’s frowned, you know, you got to be the last one out the door along with the boss.
Steve Cadigan 11:10
Right? Because you’re not hustling. Yeah, yeah, that’s true. I mean, there’s, there’s a part of me, I love the lifestyle that Europe offers and make no mistake, I just, I love it. And I love what you’re talking about, which is, you walk in most cities in Europe, you see people gathered in groups talking. And a lot of times in the States, you’ll see people sitting at tables, looking at a phone and not talking in groups, and it’s just more of a communal environment, which is pretty, which is pretty interesting. But I do think you mentioned something that has really caught my attention in the last few months, which is this notion that, you know, people in America in particular, we really identify ourselves through the work, you know, I am a such and such at, so and so organization. And that’s been basically eliminated disaggregated over the course of the pandemic, because who you are, and what you do, and what your title is, needs a social setting for that to be something that’s discussed or shared, and we don’t have the social settings. And I feel it’s been a good time for us to sort of unpack and, and, and sort of say, well, that’s maybe there’s something more meaningful, like spending more time with my loved ones, then just, you know, pounding my chest, and I’m so and so does such and such company, you know, and I think it’s a healthy, it’s a healthy change for all of us.
Rolando Rosas 12:29
That’s right. That’s right. And I, I agree with you about change. And I and I agree with you about culture. But I also want to just roll back a little bit to the, what you were talking about numbers, and I just want to put something up to actually validate a little bit of what you’re saying. So we took a look at the numbers. And we took, we found two surveys amongst the many, many surveys and studies. And we found that workers are speaking very loudly about this. But this work is not just work life balance. But going back to the office, we found a survey that was done for Bloomberg just not not too long ago, and that in that survey, they found 39% of employees would rather quit if they were forced to go back to the office. And that number was even higher amongst those that were younger millennials and Gen Z, which I saw you on a Bloomberg interview talking about this as well, where you have a record number of people voluntarily leaving the workforce in April, which was in going back several many years as they’ve been keeping record. And that can’t be a coincidence. And that people are very different today than they were 18 months ago before this whole mess started.
Steve Cadigan 13:43
Yeah, it is shocking how much the world has changed. Forget work for a second our personal lives. And I have, you know, five kids in my house that are all in variously areas of education and schooling. So how their world changed was dramatic, or how my attention on their education changed based, you know, compared to before the pandemic and, and I think that we already saw the early signs of this even before the pandemic, I mean, the Gen Z and Millennial working population has already come down from about four years at a company to 2.8. And that’s the median. And so we’re gonna see those numbers continue to come down and no one I’m talking to no business leader around the world thinks that’s going to change. And that’s a big part of I know, we’re gonna talk about this in the latter part of today’s show, but that’s a big part of what I’m trying to help leaders understand today through my book Workquake, which is we have this assumption that and the way the media is portraying what’s happening now is they’re saying it’s the big resignation, right, the little shock effect resigning, and that’s why I’m trying to reframe the language thing. It’s actually a big career migration. Yes, people are leaving, but, you know, I haven’t worked in HR for most of my career when people leave here. Good things can happen in your company, new opportunities are created, people can get promoted, you get a chance to hire new talent and new skills and new people and ideas. That’s not a bad thing. But it’s just happening for many organizations faster than they’re used to in tech. You know, if someone stays 2.8 years, like, we have like a celebrate what you’re still here, this is amazing, you know, and in some industries, you know, they don’t celebrate until you’re there 10 years, and now they’re having to fight a different battle, which is why we don’t have a captive group of people. There was one story on the news recently, which, which captures that Wells is a fitness center looking to hire a trainer, the manager said, normally, when I post the job, I have 15 people, and I have choice. Today I have two or three, and they’re not optimal candidates. So now they’re going to have to look at a different thing. And, to your point, I believe this is all about how we soaked in a new reality for a year and a half and change. And now we’re making different life choices. And I don’t think this is a blip, I think this is going to continue to play out. And people can the other thing is, we can see more of what’s possible today, those how we can apply our education and our experiences than ever before. And so when you combine that with an opportunity to make more choices, I mean, it’s advantage professionals, it’s advantaged workers today in a big way.
Dave Kelly 16:23
You know, and it’s exciting, because if you take some of these folks that are just getting out of college, you know what, maybe they want to work for a company based in the west coast, but they don’t want to leave their New England bubble. And now with the technology and with leaders accepting work from home and being able to get a talent pool, that’s not just across the country, but across the world. But you have these these folks that are now they have opportunities to get jobs for organizations where they don’t have to relocate to, you know, to have that job at LinkedIn or Google. I think it’s, I think it’s an amazing opportunity for both the employees and the employers.
Steve Cadigan 17:03
100% Agree, Dave 100% agree. And if you’re a recruiter, you’re excited, because usually your hiring manager says, and they have to be around live around here, or we have to relocate or there’s a relocation budget. And now, you know, Jamie Dimon aside, most leaders have said, my comfort level, managing and leading and recruiting Remote Staff has been raised, I can see and I’ve learned through the pandemic, I can create value with a remote workforce. And so you’re right. I think that should benefit both parties. Now the the rub and the unknown dimension to this, which we still aren’t going to have an answer with for a few years, which is, what does that mean about culture, communication, sense of community? If you’re not in content, we’re used to building that together, right? And now we’re not. And it’s not impossible. And I’m an optimist. And I know you guys are two of watch a lot of your shows, who’s just who’s to say that what we could build couldn’t be better. Maybe there could be better community. We don’t know that yet. But a lot of our, you know, keep we’re human. And what we don’t know, we usually fear the worst, because we don’t know, you know, the Jamie Dimon speaking for a lot of those leaders and how he’s framing this. They’re, they’re worried. And so that’s totally human to be worried. But I think and this is what I tell a lot of my clients today, when they’re asking me, Well, Steve, what should we do? Should we go hybrid? Should we back to back to work? Should we be you know, some, you know, fully remote? And I say, Here’s, I know what the right answer is, but I don’t think you’re gonna like hearing it, which is, the best practice right now is experimentation. try stuff out, you know, and that’s why tech companies, you guys know, this. Tech companies have been able to pivot and manage moments like the pandemic better, because they’re always changing. They’re always dealing with new stuff. And it’s always a little bit crazy. And the pandemics just another day are crazy. And companies that are not used to that are struggling. And the way I put it is, you know, and this is probably true in the banking world. When you’re in big business, and there’s a lot of money on the line, you need to build for stability, reliability and predictable outcomes. Of course, you should, that’s what your board wants, your shareholders want that. But today, what’s happening is you need to build for instability. You got to build to weather crazy. And I think the more remote your team is, the more diverse you are, the more capable you are of handling that diversity. So I think this is an opportunity for people to sort of build that pilot agile muscle, if you will, so that when the next crazy happens, whether you know delta is going to, you know, peak and cause more problems, or we’re going to have to revert to more, you know, safety measures or whatever, where there’s another recession around the corner. The more you can weather that I think the better and now’s a great time for you to rebuild an in a better way, firmly believe.
Rolando Rosas 19:51
And I think the word that you’re that I think of when I hear you say all those things is resiliency. And I know that being in the tech sector like We are working, things changed much faster than like you said, maybe in the banking sector where you know that you have your big players, you know, the known players in tech, the new player pops up every day, and could upset the applecart in and make turn things around and disrupt things. And I don’t think in the banking sector, the finances, you have as much as you do it, like you alluded to Bitcoin and Etherium, Blockchain, all of these things are new players, and it’s starting to make make some inroads. It hasn’t come dominated yet, but it’s getting there. But they’re not used to it. And I think that for the culture, and I think that’s one of the things that that Mr. Dimon was talking about the culture, maybe the culture is different at JP Morgan and those other locations, but the people that are inside of those companies are not immune from the events that happen outside. And I think that those companies like like hit like his would be well served to make sure that he retains the top talent, and the top talent may not stay there made like like like this, then maybe I don’t want to, I don’t want to be in the city. You know, I love I love the freedom that work has and I’m more productive, every single metric and study put out by whether it’s Deloitte, Ernst and Young, the surveys that I just mentioned, here’s another one. Thank you, Ori. here’s this, here’s a survey done as on JP Morgan, along with some of the top tech companies. In this survey, they asked, Hey, would you take a $30,000 raise, to go back to the office? And guess what, 64% that? Uh, no, I have rather passed on 30. That’s, that’s not that’s not nothing. That’s a good chunk of change that we can pay in that year. If you’re going to you have your kid in private school or or college that could fund that right there. But those people saying no, an overwhelming majority of saying nah, a pass on that I rather have a little bit more time, either to myself, or with my family, or with it with an elderly a loved one. I know. As for me, you You have loved ones that couldn’t take care of themselves. And they came, and you watch them during this this last 18 months. And it was good, because they didn’t have anywhere else to go. And that like you said, it changed people It certainly changed me and I know millions of others, as well as I gotta believe those employees working for Mr. Dimon.
Steve Cadigan 22:18
Yeah, absolutely. I’m not surprised by that data. And I think it gets to the chipping away at that notion we talked about in America where you identify with who you are, as some as based on your work. And now we’re shifting to as a husband, as a spouse, as a brother as a son. I mean, I had to pay much more attention to my parents during the pandemic, we started new family rhythms. I don’t know about you guys, but my family sprinkled all over the country. And so we started, you know, weekly zoom nights. And then we had to figure out how do we get the closed caption to work? Because my dad can’t hear? You know, and we can’t go to his house to sort of show him well, this is what you click to do it. And when those those things, really, yeah, they changed us. And what I am sad to hear when I hear people like Jamie Dimon say, our culture, what he’s really saying, Is my culture, the culture that I think we should have, he’s not saying the culture that my employees want, right? He’s saying our culture, and he’s taking responsibility. And you guys also saw this play out in two radical approaches that happened in Silicon Valley. Was it Coinbase, and Basecamp, two companies that came out in the last six months to say, we will not talk about society at work, all that stuff? You can’t talk about it here. And if you don’t like it, here’s a package, you can take it and leave. And both companies about 20% of workforces, okay, thank you, we’re out. But what what they’re solving for was something worth paying attention to, which is, you know, these discussions of George Floyd and racism and gender equality and things that are wrong in society that are in place, and we need to talk about this. And we need to take a position and a stance as a company. And their leadership is like, Nope, that’s a big distraction. And if you don’t engage with it in that discussion, you lose. And if you do engage with it, you lose. So we’re just going to take it out. And we’re just going to focus on work. And to your point, Rolando, like how do you do that? How do you park society outside? I don’t know how I don’t know how you do it. And so I’ve been really skeptical of it’s an interesting approach. But what I think it’s done in both companies is created more of a problem than solving a problem.
Rolando Rosas 24:29
Well, I think you can’t sanitize what’s happening on the world around you and we’d love to I’d love to you know, my folks you know, we that that work with us. You can’t sanitize what’s happening, they are affected you know, if they’re, if they’re if they get the they get the the corona or one of their loved ones. You know, what they’re not thinking about his work very well is if you have a mom working for you, and she’s worried about their kids coming down with something well, whatever they can effectively be working for, you know, I played sports, and I’m all about performance 100%, what can we get our folks to do, so that they perform at the peak level as much as they can, they can’t do that if they’re sick, you can’t run with a football in your hand, and be an all Pro, if you’re sick, you can’t go tackle and be the Lawrence Taylor that you if you’re sick, right, and if you’re sick and body or mind, that affects your work, and that from, from a performance standpoint, it affects your play on the field. And I know it affects your work in an office or remote working, if you’re not able to do those other things that, you know, make up your mind and your body.
Steve Cadigan 25:38
Right. And I think this you’re getting towards something, which I think is that one of the best opportunities we have to take advantage of in the pandemic, which is I think the pandemic has forced all of us to get to know each other and our co workers, on a more personal level, whether we’re seeing the inside of each other’s homes, on Zoom, you know, Skype, GoToMeeting, whatever, whether we’re seeing that, or whether we’re just recognizing some of the individual challenges we all face, whether someone has immunity compromised health condition, or someone needs to get food to a loved one, whatever that is, we’re learning more about each other. And I think that will long term that’s going to benefit us, you know, because you you know, I’m a huge sports fan, just like you are. And that’s how I got into human resources. Everything about HR is all about sports, which is, you know, identifying how to build a great team and who works well together and what kinds of leaders pair well with good kinds of teams and what kind of environments produce the best outcomes for people. And what what I’m seeing the pandemic do for a lot of leaders is forced them to check in with their people and say, Are you okay? Because as you said, if someone’s not, okay, someone’s sick, someone’s education is suffering at home, they’re not going to be able to deliver value to you until that gets solved. So we need to help our people solve those problems. And this gets into this notion of community, which I think is really going to be enhanced because of our greater awareness of one another through the pandemic,
Rolando Rosas 27:05
Agreed 100%. And that’s a good segue to your book, because your book is full of things about community, talking about the lives of people live, and how that interacts with employers and a culture and when you dress culture, in your book, one of the things if if I can read a little passage from your book here, you’re talking, you talk about the learning agility, and growth mindset. And you, you quote, Kelly, Palmer, Palmer, about about this, and you say, Kelly Palmer recently told me that the most important skill people need to develop is something she calls learning agility. And then she can you have some bullet points on it. But I wanted you to expand on that, because I think learning and you say this through the book, it’s a continuous process. And learning is not just happening in the classroom, not happening in, you know, just in an Ivy League school anymore. It’s in our university. It’s happening on a daily basis with within organizations, and the things that affect it like right now and the situation that we’re all moving into, like a web 3.0, with business, with tech, with people’s lives and all of that converging in a way that never had.
Steve Cadigan 28:20
Yeah, thanks for for bringing that up. And that is such a great opportunity for me to sort of say, well, like, Why did I write this book? I wrote this book, because many of my friends, family colleagues are becoming more afraid and anxious about the future of work. And I’m like, you know, I wanted to unbundle that I wanted to package that and reframe it in a way that’s more inspirational and more motivational. And one of the biggest roadblocks for people feeling uncomfortable at the future is we don’t know what skills we’re going to need tomorrow to be vital to have really good careers. And we’re always hearing Oh, you need to know, Blockchain, you need to know Python programming, you need to know this new thing, or there’s, you know, my dad just can’t stand all these new phone things. He’s using some Android from like the 80s, or something like that. And he doesn’t want to, you know, be told I gotta learn all this new stuff. But, you know, if you really, if you boil it down, and what I was trying to do in that part of the book is explained, listen, the world of business is changing fast, we can’t stop that new skills are going to be needed. We can’t stop that. So your advantage is not to chase what new hot skill you need to build your advantages. becoming more aware that the faster you learn something, the more value you’re going to become. Because we know you’re going to need to learn something new. So as someone who’s recruited 1000s of people over my career, I can tell you that the shelf life of a job description is probably two months at best. And then the job changes and you do new things. And so, what do you Who do you need to hire? If you know your job is going to change you know, your company is going to change? And if you step back and look at all the unicorns that are out there, 95% of those unicorn ones are not in the business today that they started out to be. And so they needed to pivot, they need to change. And they probably needed new people with bringing in new skills. And so what I’m trying to tell people here is listen, you want to be more vital for tomorrow, you got to recognize it’s your ability to learn stuff fast and apply it that’s gonna make you more valuable. It’s not the what, it’s the how, right? And that’s investing in yourself and being having the growth mindset, just always being curious. And I was always tired of people saying, Steve, you need to be a lifelong learner. I’m like, Well, what the heck does that mean? Like, you know,
Rolando Rosas 30:34
you’d be in a classroom all day.
Steve Cadigan 30:36
I was like, I, I don’t know what what are you talking about? Like, I’m learning new stuff every day. Like, what? What does that actually mean? And so I try to give examples of how people can lead a life where, where you’re doing that and appreciating that, whether you’re volunteering, whether you’re educating, whether you’re just hanging out with friends, watching kids play sports, there’s opportunities for you to ask questions and learn what other people doing this can just make you more valuable, or able to see new opportunities for yourself. So that was kind of what was behind that sort of learning agility, if you will.
Rolando Rosas 31:10
And want to pick your brain on something that I know that, for me, it’s it’s a fascinating thing. But talking about curiosity, and how that all plays out in the book you also talk about, and I’m sure a lot of folks watching this one, and okay, you spent your time at LinkedIn, what that was like, and you gave us a small window to that. And I just want to read a small passage of that, when you’re talking about meetings, and how that all played out, you mentioned that you had at least 20 different ways of running the company. And that to me, I find that nuts, like you’d have meetings about meetings, and you had 20 different iterations of that. And you say, That’s okay, then I don’t know how you all came to agree. And actually I do, because I read the blurb of the rest of the book, you talk about that. But I want you to talk about that mindset on because it’s relevant to what you just said, curiosity, you know, how do we make this work? You know, how do we come up with a playbook that works for our organization, probably unique to what we’re doing as a mission statement as what we’re wanting to take to the board, as well as what we want to do with our customers.
Steve Cadigan 32:15
Yeah, it’s such a great question. Thank you, for for, for teeing that up. When I look back at the LinkedIn experience, for me, it was radically different from my journey. Prior was mainly big companies, big companies. And when you’re in a big company, what you do is you go in, and you kind of fix what people did before you, you tune it, and you try to make it more current. And when you’re in a startup, like we were at LinkedIn, I mean, you’re building something from nothing. And we, we didn’t know how to run the company. And what what I was dealing with were Google refugees, Yahoo, refugees, Oracle, refugees, people and Adobe refugees. And I was a Cisco refugee. And what we knew more was what we didn’t want to do. We didn’t know how we should do it. And none of us had ever taken a company public before. And so that section of the book I love, because it really was very frustrating to me at the time Rolando because I’m like, what, we can’t figure out how to hold a meeting. And this was the meeting where the executives like this is how you run a company when you’re when you’re young, and you’re growing, which is the executives that are leading all their functions get together and talk about what’s important and make decisions that affect the course of your business. And so we experimented, you know, how long should it be? Who should be there? Who should own the agenda? What should we talk about? Should we just go around and everyone give an update? And we experimented at the time, as I said, I was so frustrated, like I was looking to see like, why can’t you just make a decision, you’re getting it all this money? You know, it’s your company, you know, and it was really honest, it was very frustrating probably wasn’t until a few years after I sat back and said, Man, that was the greatest thing that we did. Because after about two years, we land on a methodology and a rhythm that was so perfect. Not just because of what we arrived at. But how we got there. Everyone believed this was the best way to do it. No one was saying I hate the meetings. No, everyone’s like, hey, we all built this together. And this is how this is the heartbeat of the organization and how we’re making the most important decisions. And, and that was really interesting to me. And it gets at what, you know, I know you guys care a lot about which is the culture of an organization like how do you build that and we all contributed to it. And it was a lot of arguing and negotiation and disagreement, and trial and error and things worked. And sometimes it didn’t work. But when we finally settled on them again, it took us about two years. And a lot of times people say oh well what was it? What did you settle? I said that’s not the point. The point was how we got there. Exactly was that and that plays into your when we’re talking about what is the future of work right now? Should it be hybrid and fully remote or what I like well, you kind of try a bunch of stuff out. You don’t know different departments are going to do great at home. Different departments need to be in certain days a week. And hybrid itself is not just a category, there’s 1000s of versions what hybrid could look like what days What hours who’s in where you’re going to be? And so you got to just try it out. And that feels really uncomfortable for people who are not used to experimenting. And as we talked about, what I had at LinkedIn was a bunch of people who are used to building software where what you do you AB test, does this work with this client? Does this work with that client? Okay, A, B, okay, work skill, let’s double down on a and then split that up into another A, B, and then we learn and we get smarter. And we iterate.
Rolando Rosas 35:24
I think, you know, just the companies that you’re talking about? are also again, I wondering if some of this Yes, tech, tech, you’re constantly AB testing, you’re constantly your retest testing the theory, okay, that work? And then okay, how many colors of of black? Can we use that we know black works, but maybe the lighter, there’s a whole bunch of gradients of black that we can use in which customers respond to that. So you’re used to that, I wonder if that’s like I said, it’s a tech in the younger crowd, because like, we saw that in a survey, more and more people feel like they would stay home, right, versus the the non tech industries. You know, I used to work at Philip Morris, and had nothing to do with tech, nothing to do with AB testing, it was all about customer’s desires, and how to respond to that. The last thing you want to think about is split testing, you know, and do that on a regular basis to see what works because customer demand changes now much, much, much, much faster than ever. So, I don’t know, that’s just, I’d love to ask you about that. Because you know, you have you have shortened go into much more more boardrooms than I do.
Steve Cadigan 36:34
Well, I got a great example to give you and this just happened a couple of weeks ago, in the last two weeks, I’m working with a major multinational organization. It’s the Latin American arm of this organization. And they are in the pharmaceutical division. And they’re asking me, what should we do about future work? And how do you think about should we be? How should we structure this? And how should we think about it? And I said, Well, let’s talk about how you create value in your, in your department. You’ve got pharmacists, PhDs, lab, you know, experts, and they’re creating new drugs. So how do they do that? I said, and they said, well, they experiment. I was like, That’s right. I said, so that’s what you’re going to need to do here. You know, you’re gonna have to look at work like a laboratory right now and experiment because everyone’s needs just shifted the person that left for the pandemics and that person coming back. And you have to see, can you create value in different ways? Now, you can pull the ripcord like Jamie Dimon say everyone back, but I don’t think that’s going to serve you well, because people have changed in their, in their recognition of how do work has evolved. And so, you know, when I when I think about that, that’s how I that’s how I’m thinking about it, that even these bigger organizations, and, and I do believe what Marc Andreessen said a couple of decades ago that Software is eating the world, every company really is becoming a tech company. And data is your competitive advantage. Right? Look at Walmart, you don’t think Walmart’s a tech company. But Walmart has the greatest volume of retail data in the world. And they have 1000s of developers. And the challenge is for let’s take banks, for example. Banks were told by the expensive consultants 20 years ago, outsource to data to India, much cheaper, lower cost wages, let’s go send it to we pro emphasis. And then the banks are waking up to realize oh my gosh, our competitive advantage is our consumer behavior, how they’re doing it, the bank is now on a phone. Where’s our data? Oh, it’s in India. What do we know about phones? Oh, nothing.
Rolando Rosas 38:31
You’re totally right. Oops. Well, you know, the other companies have have started that pattern of insourcing. And bringing that work back back into the US. And I think that with the labor market is getting even tighter. As people shift their attitudes towards work, that’s only going to become even worse, more and more amplified, where you can see more and more, not so much labor shortage, but people just choosing to work differently. Like you said, Now, I know that you’ve got a bunch of other interviews we got today. So I want to run right into the fun. Like the really fun part of this is when we have guests on, we get to ask them a few questions, just so people can get a little bit more of a flavor of who you are and your likes and things like that. So are you ready to roll with those questions is just no wrong answer here. Just a series of questions.
Steve Cadigan 39:22
Rapid fire. Yep.
Rolando Rosas 39:23
Rapid fire. What’s your favorite musician or musical group?
Steve Cadigan 39:27
Favorite musician? Probably right now musical group is going to be The Killers.
Rolando Rosas 39:31
I’ve never heard of them. But what kind of what kind of genre is that?
Steve Cadigan 39:35
It’s probably I don’t know, sort of New Age rock. I would say sort of in the genre of a Coldplay and a YouTube.
Rolando Rosas 39:42
Oh, like I live near like Coldplay. All right, your favorite app on your phone?
Steve Cadigan 39:48
The secret app on my phone, LinkedIn, sorry.
Rolando Rosas 39:54
That’s, you know, I’m, you’re on LinkedIn and I see you posting regularly I think takes
Steve Cadigan 39:59
time. is a very close second and it’s superseding it. Yeah.
Rolando Rosas 40:04
Well, they’re not immune from LinkedIn is not immune from what’s happened in a TikTok and I expect that changes are coming because all the other platforms are adjusting their stuff around what TikTok is doing. Favorite food.
Steve Cadigan 40:18
Favorite food? Mexican, without a doubt, I can eat it three, four meals a day,
Rolando Rosas 40:23
and you’re in a great. DC does not hold a candle to what you’ve got out there on the West Coast. Oh, yeah, I’ve been in both places, and a lot of restaurants and West Coast gets us got to speed on the Mexican side right now. Okay. And then last question, What’s your proof? This is a multiple choice. What’s your preferred method of communication, email, text, phone call, instant message or DM? Text? Like text? Okay. It’s still I’ve been reading how it’s the most effective way to market to people today. Now a lot of people are getting into text, which seems old, but old is new audio is old, but new again. So that’s an interesting,
Steve Cadigan 41:02
it’s interesting. You know, I have a new business partner, Shane Howard. He’s my new business manager agent. We make decisions and share information over text now. And I’m thinking like, Should we move that to some sort of different, you know, format, but it works for us. I’m really I’ve never had a business relationship that’s mostly text based was pretty cool it works.
Rolando Rosas 41:21
thing interesting is that, you know, if you if you’ve seen any clip or video of Gary Vaynerchuk, he’s saying at the end text me so it’s, it’s a thing, is this a thing that if he’s onto it, that means there’s something there, something’s happening, then you’re on probably on to it, too. So I want to thank Steve for for coming on board and giving us some knowledge today, enlightening us about the future of work sharing his thoughts about his book Workquake. So if you are looking to deep dive into what this all means, how you can use it for yourself, maybe you’re an employer, you’ve got folks that are younger, and the young crowd and they’re ready to head out the doors because they want to work from home. I think this will help you understand a little bit more about what to do with culture, what you did at LinkedIn, and how that all shook out. Because it seemed like LinkedIn did pretty well. Right? Yeah, fortunately, they did. Okay, they’re doing okay. So, already, we’re going to the CTA, are we going to the trivia? Okay, so let’s do this trivia here. Well, I would love to hear what Steve says the answer is on this one.
Dave Kelly 42:37
So this, so within these four companies, who has the highest percentage of employees who want to work at home, permanently Do you have what would
Steve Cadigan 42:45
you really guess Microsoft? Because they have, they’ve been around the longest, and they’ve got more people that are probably like craving this, but I could, I could make an argument for why anyone could win, but I’m going to pick be Microsoft.
Dave Kelly 42:57
Well, according to the studies finding about 64% of Amazon workers, they prefer permanent work from home 62%, say, from Microsoft 67 of Google employees. And Apple would rather take permanent work from home with 16. Sorry, I’m reading that two different things. So it was apple at 69%. And then Salesforce employees, actually they were, well, we’re number one is 76% would permanently work from home. But again, this is a this is the they would want to work at home, not necessarily that that will be the case moving forward.
Steve Cadigan 43:37
But it’s interesting, because Salesforce owns a ton of new buildings. So be interesting to see how that plays out.
Rolando Rosas 43:42
I think that’s why one reason some of these CEOs want people to come back home, they have to reduce those buildings, right, or lease lease floor space out, or say, you know, maybe we that investment we made wasn’t the best investment today. So what to see what happens, I think, I think a hybrid is the way to go. But you said there’s many iterations of hybrid. So we’ll have to see how this all plays out in the coming weeks and months. So Steve, thank you for being such a wonderful sport. We would love to have you on again. I wish I had more time with you because there’s like 20 more things I want to talk to you about. But absolutely, absolutely. You can come on in anytime you want. You just let me know we will have you on again. And if you and I want to let you know if you liked this content, we would love to see your support with this. It just hit LIKE subscribe, hit all the bells and whistles, all that good stuff all because you know what we may release and we actually do release nuggets throughout the week that you can only get if you’re subscribed and you get that notification so that you know what’s going on maybe we sneak in a little bit of extra overtime with with Steve. We have other tidbits that come out. So be on the inside and get to know what’s going on. Not all right. So and what we’ve also got for you in store, if you stuck around to the end, and you’re watching us on the playback today, we’ve had, we’ve got some other videos where my points are you right here? Oh, well, yeah, that’s a good one. Steve. People want to people want to know, if you’re on LinkedIn, where can people find you? If they can’t text you like your partner? Where can they go?
Steve Cadigan 45:22
You can find me on LinkedIn. If you’re connected with me, then you got my phone number because I do have my cell phone number on my LinkedIn profile for those people connected or go to Stevecadigan.com my website and I’m I’m pretty responsive. So if you got a question or something that I can, you know, weigh in on please, please ping me and I try to get back to all inquiries within 24 hours.
Rolando Rosas 45:41
Awesome.
Dave Kelly 45:43
Steve, congratulations again on the book. I want to tell the viewers again, you can order that on Amazon or you can get that pretty soon within your local Barnes and Noble.
Rolando Rosas 45:51
That’s right, that’s right. And you can watch the von TikTok has some really good TikToks I love that and you got to give me some coaching on the TikTok.
Steve Cadigan 45:58
I never thought it was going to evolve honestly I thought well you know teenage lip sinkers are not gonna like my stuff and started to take off so I’m happy to I’m happy to report yeah.
Rolando Rosas 46:08
No, you’re kicking butt man you got like 100,000 followers or something like that on on TikTok. So kudos to you get into coaching about TikTok how to make a TikToc. So still Steve and a we could talk for for a long time here. So thank you for coming in. And are, we shooting it to the rolling into the next stuff. Okay. Let me make sure I’m putting it in the right direction. So if you’re stuck around, there’s some more helpful videos that we have for you. If you want to learn about let me see why there’s still you stuck around. We’ve got some other episodes that will help you on your journey. Whether you’re looking for a device you want to know more about remote working and the tools that you need in order to be effective at remote working. Thanks for joining us today. See you on the next episode.
Outro 46:57
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