Dr. Mike Perko 4:43
Yeah, you know if I if I’ve heard that wants to hurt it a million times. You live by technology you die by
Dave Kelly 4:49
sometimes.
Rolando Rosas 4:50
Oh, well, Mike, I really appreciate you coming on the show today because you’ve got your finger on, on the pulse on some things that just you know, we may not even be aware of in how much impact something so simple and when it gets to the 500 fist bumps, because it’s an amazing, fascinating initiative that you have going on. But, you know, professionally, you’ve, you’ve hung your hat on in the workplace, and this is the time, right? This is the time when those types of topics are coming way up way below the surface and really being front and center these days.
Dr. Mike Perko 5:30
Yeah. So, first of all, I want to thank you for that introduction. You know, one of my friends said, every introduction should be like you are Bruce Springsteen, introducing the next inductee in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So thank you so much. I feel like I’m in the What The Teck? Hall of Fame now.
Rolando Rosas 5:47
Yay, yay, I love it. I love it.
Dr. Mike Perko 5:50
I had a hat on, I take it off my hats off. Secondly, I begin every class and I’ve done this. I’ve been a professor for 27 years. And I begin every class when I walk in by saying good morning scholars or good morning, colleagues. So thank you so much for letting me be a part of this panel. So good morning, scholars. Good morning. Colleagues, we have a lot to talk about. Because we do live in amazing times. Indeed, listen, this is important. I want to make sure everybody’s listening to this. So I have been a professor for 27 years, which means I have had five generations come through my classroom, I’ve taught over 5000 students beginning in the 1990s. And I currently have the Gen Z’s who as you know, reach for their phone every five minutes or so. And that is totally fine. We we involve technology into our classroom, not only because it is what it is, but because we want to, because this is all going to be part of the learning experience. here’s the here’s the million dollar question is what behaviors that I’m seeing now in the classroom will translate into the workplace. Right. So that’s one of the things that we we talk about when it comes to well, we call it worksite. Wellness, that word is actually trans transition now to worksite. well being, which is a really, I mean, it’s makes them seem like a simple thing, we’ve added a hyphen and, and the word being afterward. But the idea is that now we’re not only focused on wellness, which is like, you know, health from the neck down, you know, how many steps Am I getting, and, you know, go to this couch to 5k program sign up for that. But the well being aspect means we’re now talking about health from the neck up and how important our mental health is. And, and, you know, certainly that’s above the fold. So I’m totally ready to dig in today to your questions about adults today in the workplace, future adults in the workplace. And you know, the amazing thing about what we’re going to talk about today is the kids who are around today, when they become the adults in the workplace, it is going to be
Rolando Rosas 7:59
fascinating. Indeed, no doubt. And I want to jump into that, including all the you said, you’re going to show us some data and I’m a nerd on the data side. I can’t wait to hear all of that. But I think Dave before we jump into the data, got a little something
Dave Kelly 8:14
for us. Yeah, so we have some questions of course talking about you know, the children and future workforce. But first, are you a small to medium sized business owner eager to up your communication game? While Listen, Global Teck Worldwide is your secret weapon. They specialize in hands free communication devices like headsets, speaker phones, and cutting edge video communication devices and cameras. But here’s the kicker they’re not just about hardware. They are your go to negotiation partner for voice hardware and services, making your transition to advanced communication platforms a tactical masterpiece. Global Teck knows the tech battlefield inside Nope. They’re not here to just push you products. They’re here to decode your unique needs and find solutions that maximize your return on investment. Their customer service is top notch and satisfaction is their war cry so small to medium business owners. If you want to negotiate and communicate like a pro, reach out to Global Teck Worldwide. Visit their website, global-teck.com. Again, global-teck.com. Or of course give them a call. They’re Battle Ready to consult, provide and support every step of the way. Make the strategic choice with Global Teck Worldwide.
Rolando Rosas 9:35
Awesome, Dave, thank you go to battle. That was awesome. And before we get back to Dr. Mike Perko. Okay, Mike, Big Mike. Well, let’s give some big props to a couple of folks that have been just instrumental to us in the last few months. Dave, you want to give big props to somebody?
Dave Kelly 9:56
Absolutely. Listen big props to Braden Dixon Braden Dixon. A formerly of scansource. Moving on to new opportunities with an IT consulting firm called SATA. Listen, Braden, we’ve learned a lot from you, you have a bright future ahead of us. You have a bright future ahead of you. And SATA Italia, they are very fortunate to have recruited you. So best of luck with your new venture was SATA. And of course, listen big props to Liz York, Liz, yours, you have been a partner of ours for quite a while you’ve known us business. You have some shoes to fill backing up, Braden, thank you, thank you for your support. And we look forward to working with you again.
Rolando Rosas 10:36
And thank you, Liz for your feedback. We had a chance to talk actually earlier today before we started recording. So thank you appreciate the wonderful feedback, you know what I’m talking about. So thanks again for the wonderful feedback. So let’s get back to like, we’re talking about the little ones being the future. And also working with within the workplace, you know, the professionals that are there like you and I work in the workplace. And I want you to take a look at this clip, because it gets to what we’re talking about. And then we’ll discuss it on the other side of the clip, go ahead and roll that or mandating its
Guest Speaker 11:14
workers returned to the office, return to the office to return to the office to return to office back into the office, back to the office, even zoom the company this is now throwing in the towel on fully remote work company that cashed in on the digital work revolution is now requiring most employees to work in person in person, we now know what the percentages is just under 40% are never coming back to the office.
Rolando Rosas 11:41
Wow. I wanted to ask you about this because we it seems like we’re at an inflection point. And the whole trajectory of work is going in a different direction, at least for a good chunk of those work professionals today that are out there doing from the keyboard economy and borrowing somebody else’s phrase. How do you see this playing out?
Dr. Mike Perko 12:02
Well, so it’s interesting. I’ve been in worksite, wellbeing, worksite wellness for 30 years, I have worked mostly with companies that have remote sites. But those remote sites have live human beings inside those buildings, whether it’s two people at a substation in eight mile Alabama, or the corporate headquarters in Birmingham when we were working with their, with their program there. But here’s the thing, and I hope you’re sitting down because I also have live human beings who are in my classroom. Now, here’s what happened. Obviously, during COVID, everybody went online. And we did that for a number of years. In fact, UNCG and our Department of Public Health actually went against the grain our this is important, our chancellor said, you know everybody’s back face to face. Because we wanted to have a show of good faith. We’re taking all the precautions. But as epidemiologist we said, well, it’s not over, there’s going to be there’s going to be an upswing when it gets cold. And we actually went against the grain and said, you know, don’t come back to class, we had a slap on the wrist, but we actually minimize the infection rates. Many of our students are black and brown so that they have higher risk. So we actually thought of the employees or our students first and kept them safe. Now, here’s the
Rolando Rosas 13:22
second before you go on. Yeah, that’s because it is a very difficult thing to go against the grain and stand up for what’s right. And that deserves recognition.
Dr. Mike Perko 13:31
Well, so we know our students, we know their personal lives, we know that some of them struggle with you know, having access to health care, we did not want to put them and their families at risk. morally and ethically, we couldn’t do it. Now a business decision was made to have students come back to the classroom, because that makes good press. However, as epidemiologist, we couldn’t fly with that. So again, we got slapped on the wrist, but you know better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Our students felt much more connected to us because we put we showed grace and we kept them healthy. But what has happened is now that we are fully back face to face, I will tell you this, I typically teach classes 48 to 50 students in the past, you know, I would have 45 students show up. But what’s happening now is if I have 20 students show up. That’s a good day. And I would ask the students who would be face to face though, are our in-person workers. What’s going on? And they said, well, students simply began college online went to their first two years online. We don’t know how to navigate that face to face experience interesting. And we expected them to jump right back into a face to face when they really hadn’t had no orientation on campus. So not to say that, you know, they didn’t go to school face to face when they were younger. But that’s the struggle that we’re dealing with right now.
Rolando Rosas 15:04
And would you say that, given that, it really, that’s an eye opening piece of information that since those, those two classes that went those freshmen and sophomore classes that went through the cycle, you know, they’ve built some new muscle memory of round virtual work about about virtual learning that they probably wouldn’t have gained. And it sounds like from what you’re saying, some of those students also prefer it that way. Because otherwise, it just walked back into the classroom.
Dr. Mike Perko 15:38
Well, they really do. And, you know, as I, as I call my students, scholars and colleagues, we want to have a mutual respect. But it is easier to do this from your bedroom and turn the camera off. So unless I have policies such as you know, camera must always be on, you must participate in class somehow, whether it’s a chat or something, we as professors are also learning how to navigate a respectful environment. But also, you know, get get our message across, which is trying to prepare them for for the working world. So Dave Rolando, you know, we’re, we’re kind of walking through this, as well as they are having to navigate these human relationships.
Dave Kelly 16:22
As you’re as you’re helping the youth, prepare for the future of work, or preparing them to join the workforce. Has their perception changed about working career since the pandemic, so a lot of these folks may have may have parents that were working from home? They were keyboard, that what do we call it Rolando? The keyboard economy, the keyboard economy? So I understand that not everyone has the privilege of working on a keyboard, but for those that did, and the children that saw this, they saw a parent or parents at home working? Do you feel that it’s changed the perception of their idea of career and work as they get older and join the workforce?
Dr. Mike Perko 17:14
So that’s a great question, Dave. You know, obviously, you’ve had so many guests on that have explained maybe the generational folks that who are in the workplace. So for the for the, for the Gen z’s, they’ve got a couple things going on. Now, these are the traditional students in a classroom. So you know, 1819 years old to about 2425. They’ve gone through a number of things. All right, they’ve gone through COVID. They go through, they’ve all gone through active shooter training in schools. And their parents who are millennials, or Gen Xers are a little more protective of them. So they’re coming from a a, let’s call it a mental health situation, where they don’t make the necessary decisions based on past experience, that they really rely on more of a support group. And they tend to get online right away. Now, they will have keyboards, believe me, they set up anywhere they can, you know, they’re a, they’re a traveling classroom, they can set up anywhere, take classes, do all those types of things, stuff to them, that’s as normal as pumpkin pie to any generation before them. That was something they had to learn. And of course, the next generation coming in, will never have not known a keyboard or something in their hand. Right? So all that to say, I don’t have, I just don’t have the answers. And maybe you’re talking to CEOs that might still be straddling the 20th century where what we do is we work and where we work is from the offices. And so there’s going to have to be a tightrope walked between future CEOs and students who may not choose to work for a company where these these demands go against the behaviors that they’ve learned.
Rolando Rosas 19:05
Well, I don’t think you’re seeing anything different than Kevin O’Leary, who said, you know, 40% of his workers, he did a survey and they said on that clip, they will never come back. And he put a lot of emphasis on that. And we had on Steve Cadigan, a couple of weeks ago and share that piece of clip with with him. And he says, you know, he’s come to a realization because he didn’t start off that way. When when when things started. Going remote, he was very much we’re gonna get back to the office, as soon as we open back into the office, and then he’s had an evolution because he’s found out he’s looked at the data, and it made sense that his workers are going to leave and the labor market is tight, and that it’s more profitable for them to expand the remote work policies there. So I think this is going to we’re going to be several years in the making here between employees they want to work from home, employers trying to figure it out. And then the real fact that real estate in a lot of big cities and metros area are empty, and there’s, something’s got to be done, you can really leave them empty, or we could do something about it. And I think the day will come when more and more policies are geared around hybrid work or some form of work, because we are not in the 1940s, where the idea of going to an office was adopted, nine to five was adopted, driving from the suburbs to, to into the city center was adopted. And that was the norm. And I think we’re going to be setting the new course for the next 40 or 50 years with with what’s happened in the last couple of years. So I’m looking forward to that.
Dr. Mike Perko 20:49
Yeah, I wouldn’t disagree at all. And as a matter of fact, when you think about it, universities are having to reinvent themselves as well. We know what we’re competing against. If we say we’re an only online, only a face to face program, you know, what, we’re gonna lose some students because it, it does fit their life and people’s lives are busy, let’s face it, people, you know, their to do list looks like this, get up, survive, go back to bed. So the last thing you want to deal with is, is a parking spot that you can’t find, and you’re already running late for class. So there’s a whole lot of other reasons why students are looking for a more convenient way to get their education. And if their future employees are saying, well, that was great, I’m glad you got that online degree. Now you’ve got to drive to our parking deck and park and fight traffic, that’s going to be incongruent with the whole thing they’ve done. So as a professor, and I will just very quickly say this, we’re being asked, I mean, literally, it meetings have like a big pep rally to say how can we recruit and retain students so that we can make the experience as valuable for them? Right? Because in the past, you just went to college? Right? It’s, we’re, we’re literally reinventing ourselves, oh,
Rolando Rosas 22:06
my goodness. I mean, it just, I just put myself in those shoes. When I went to college, which seems like 100 years ago. And you know, that there was no zoom, and none of this stuff and having the these tools available to you, you know, everything changes every, every couple of years and technology, and events, change all of that. And so, you know, when horse and buggy was around for a while the car came around and changed all that I’m sure a lot of people were grumbling about cars and roads, and, you know, making bridges and all the rest. But eventually everybody came around to the automobile. There are articles are talking about radio being, you know, the bane of the earth, and the stain and all this and all that. Same with internet. We’re the next revolution. I think we’re both education, and workplace in other ways we do things are about to change. And with that, I want to tap into some secrets. You know, I know you’re coming on the show with three secrets. And we’re going to go into that right now. So already go ahead and roll the top three secrets intro.
AI 23:13
Well kept secrets, well, secrets, gotta keep them safe. And sound. Well, let’s see perceivers are just like Dima.
Rolando Rosas 23:30
All right, Mike, one of the secrets that you said to me, was when we were talking about whether it’s the workplace environment, or what you want to do with your initiative, is keep it simple. What does that mean? So,
Dr. Mike Perko 23:46
you know, you guys asked me, How did I want to be referred to today? Is it Dr. Mike, etc, etc. I just want to be called by my name, which is Mike, it’s the simplest thing you can do. Also, it’s the most human thing. It’s how we make connections, we call each other by our names. You know, there’s, there’s also respect in that title. But, you know, we want to keep it simple. So I’ve been doing worksite wellness worksite well being for 30 years, and I can tell you, I’ve seen the evolution of how we get people to I’m going to use the word participate, but it’s a 20th century word, right? We used to, you know, go around, and people had to sign up, and then they had to show up. And then they had to get online and set a password and it was different from their portal. And what would happen is it was just one click too many and people would not participate in the wellness offerings that we had and we we learned one thing pretty quickly. We knew wellness with people, not to people, right? So we’re not on high preaching, you know, you should walk more you should watch what you’re putting in your mouth, get more sleep, etc. We we’ve learned that that does not work. Well. What does work We’re keeping it as simple as possible. So we don’t really necessarily want to call people participants, we want to create an environment that’s so engaging that the minute people step inside that culture, it’s, it’s exactly what they thought it was everything they do is leading towards either their better mental health, emotional health, physical health, social health, etc. So the number one rule or secret that we want to do when we want. So again, I’m coming here as a public health professor. But also I have this initiative with kids, which I think is going to be world changing. And it’s all about keeping it simple. And I’m going to sort of throw back to you guys something you did, I noticed that you showed gratitude to a couple of people, acknowledgement and gratitude is one of the key simple steps where when when we do say keep it simple. That’s going to get people to come on board, because everybody wants to be acknowledged. So man, that’s the recipe, keep it simple and acknowledge people. That’s secret number one. Number two, or no, yeah. And
Rolando Rosas 26:14
you touched on secret number two, a little bit, which was moving from engagement to participation, instead of giving out ribbons for part for more participation, which I think is there’s about a million memes out there, right 10, place ribbon for from showing up to actually getting that person who came in 10th place engaged in the process, we’ll talk about that.
Dr. Mike Perko 26:34
Sure. So again, you know, 20 years ago, let’s say we’d have a big kickoff for let’s say, a 5k. Run that we were doing it at a worksite. And so what would happen is, is you would get people, they would get a free hour off from work and sweets, they come participate in this kickoff, and they would come and they get free food. And then you would go to see who signed up and nobody actually signed up, they got the hour off. They participated. But there was no effect, right, people didn’t actually sign up. And we found out that people who were quote unquote, participating participating in worksite wellness, were doing it for all the other reasons that we had planned, that is to improve, you know, improve their blood pressure, improve their cholesterol, etc. So we moved away from counting people who showed up in a room and asked them, right, we do wellness, with people not to pee, we asked them, how would it be if you were to be engaged, and they would tell us, I want to do it on my own time. I want to do it at home with my dogs, or my husband or my spouse or my partner or my kids. And so we would create things for them. So we moved away from counting people. Right now there were 60 people in the room, we had a big success. And no, you had a big lunch bill, because we fed all those 60 people, and we never saw him again. So that’s participation, we have moved into asking people, What would it take for you to be engaged, let them tell us and then we facilitate that. So get away from expecting people to come in whether you know, physically or mentally to be a part of your program and ask them what they want, we found that that ownership involves people coming in a lot more. Nice.
Rolando Rosas 28:22
I love that. That’s That’s us. It’s amazing. More than just showing up and being a body and actually being really involved in the process. It’s just just amazing. And so the number three, go ahead and put that back up. All right, the third one, which is think long term. And this gets into where you and I were talking about also your initiative as well. What’s that all about? thinking long term? What do you
Dr. Mike Perko 28:52
mean, I’m literally I’m literally ready to jump out of my seat because this is this is so much a part of my of my being today. So I’m going to tell you, first of all, I’m going to tell you a couple of stories to cut me off. Go ahead
Rolando Rosas 29:06
fire away with the stories.
Dr. Mike Perko 29:07
The best way to talk about long term is to tell you the legend of Larry Walker’s Are you guys familiar with the legend of Larry Walters at all? All right. So Larry Walters was was a real live human being that had grown up always wanting to fly. He wanted to be a pilot, but unfortunately, his eyesight was not that good. So he never achieved that dream. But it didn’t stop him from achieving flight. So Larry Walters wanted to surprise his girlfriend. This was in the 1970s. He wanted to surprise his girlfriend. And so what he did, he said, Well, I’m going to surprise her but also achieved my goal of flight. He went to a Army Navy store and bought a number of weather balloons. Okay, now you may this may become familiar, and he took about 45 weather balloons and attach them, filled them up with helium attach them to a launch air that he had in Go up and add ballast or Wait, he put some sandbags on that launch here. Now here’s the plan. Larry, when his girlfriend was going to be coming home that night, had some friends and they were going to cut the wires that he had holding him to the earth. And he was going to float lazily over her car and sing her happy birthday, and it was very
Rolando Rosas 30:22
excellent. It wasn’t too windy.
Dr. Mike Perko 30:25
Well, get ready for this. So his friends cut the lines holding him to the planet. And instead of lazily floating 30 feet above her car, he quickly rose to 10,000. Okay, so now Larry is floating with the Gulfstream stayed up there for over 10 hours. Okay. Now he did have a safety plan. He had a pellet gun, that when he went to shoot the first bill in history rocket, so now he is at the mercy of Mother Nature. Now what happened during the 10 hour flight at 10,000 feet is he diverted not one but two commercial aircraft like literally they had to go. We have we have a manmade craft, couldn’t we have to be diverted? So that happened, he was able to pull some balloons down, let the air out. And as he floated back to Earth after after 1010 hours and 45 miles, that he had traveled across California, he got caught in some powerlines and caused a major blackout.
Rolando Rosas 31:33
Oh, my God, he didn’t fry himself. No, he did not.
Dr. Mike Perko 31:36
But when he landed, he was promptly arrested for a federal offenses, diverting aircraft etc. Well, here’s the moral of the story. And I tell this to companies who are very excited about doing things, whether it’s to get people healthy, or to enact new policies. Don’t let your programs become Larry Walters, right. It seemed like a good idea at the time, however, once it got going, nobody know where we were headed, or where we would end up. Right. So that goes into secret number three, you have to plan for the long term. Where are you headed? And how are you going to get there? Wellness is a great idea. We all want to have never met a CEO that didn’t want people to visit their employees to be healthier. But you got to know where you’re headed and where you’re going to end up. So, you know, making sure that you’re measuring and evaluating these programs is, is the critical third secret that I would tell people.
Rolando Rosas 32:38
Interesting. Wow, I love that story about Larry. Boy, I know if that was me. I would be scared. You know what, like, hopefully I’m strapped in real nice and tight on around this chair. Because 10,000 feet is not like even 50 feet, like jumping off a roof or a building like that. But oh, boy, you’re so so right. Yeah, having having a way to measure that. So that you know, when you get there, what the outcomes produced and knowing what those best practices should be? No, that’s That’s amazing. Amazing. And so there was something I think we said at the beginning, when we’re talking about the future of work and kids, I’m reminded of a song. And we’re talking about and I was talking about with the guys before, you know, we are the world, there’s a first in there. And the verse says, We are the world, we are the children. It’s true, we’ll make a better day, just you and me, and then reminded me so much of what you’re doing with this initiative of 500 fist bumps. Because as you told me this story, when we when you and I last chatted, I was like, not only it’s inspirational, not only is it simple with what you just mentioned, one of those secrets, but it’s effective, tangible, and it’s the last thing you just said it can be measured, the difference can be measured, and its impact as well. So let’s jump right into that. And in go ahead, you have the floor. Now tell me tell our audience all about it.
Dr. Mike Perko 34:15
I can’t wait everybody. Everybody, hopefully in their life has that bolt of lightning. Right, that tells them their why their their purpose on life. I had it later in life. And I’d already had a career. So let’s let’s just be sure Dave, I know you said you didn’t want to search for me but you may not have known that prior to my 27 years as a professor for 10 years. I was a high school and college coach. I coached lacrosse, I coached ice hockey and I coached soccer I was a college soccer player grew up playing youth sports etc. And so it never occurred to me that I would have the opportunity to take my former life as a coach and melded with my current life as a professor who studies the behaviors of adults now, so what happened to me was a personal story. But it was the proverbial bolt of lightning. So I’ll be quick here. So I have kids, I have a son, Jack, and I have a daughter, Elena. And as they were growing up, they played youth sports. I mean, most parents in the world, see participation in youth sports as a social good, right? Oh, you’ll have fun, you’ll make friends. And there’s actually tons of research to show that kids who go through a rec, sport experience, do better in school, they’re less likely to abuse drugs and alcohol, they’re more likely to develop leadership skills, etc. So it’s all good. And most parents will get their kids involved. So my son Jack, when he was 10, had played a number of sports. And I found them across camp locally. And I asked him, I said, Jack, you want to try a lacrosse camp? And he’s like, Absolutely, it would be great. And then he said, What will I be the only beginner at this lacrosse camp and I thought, well, I don’t know. Let me call the director and I call them and the director said, Jack will not be the only beginner we have tons of interests. So he is he is going to be in good company. So we drive to that camp that was not in good company. Dak was the only beginner there. Not only was the only the only beginner, but he was the youngest kid by three and four years, shortest kid by a foot. And the only kid with a clean Jersey man everybody else had played before. They had club names. And Jack is standing there with a little lacrosse stick. And he wanted to be anywhere. But so I said, you know, we got to do this. So he walks on the field and Dave, and Rolando and the rest of your audience. What happened in the next 10 seconds when the coach pulled everybody together? Change Jack’s lacrosse experience, but it changed my life. So the coach for the day grabbed all these kids together who all knew each other except Jack. And he goes, Okay, guys, we’re gonna be together every day for the next five days for an hour each day. And here’s how it’s gonna go. We’re gonna go through across drills, but every time you make a good pass, or score bowl, or pick up a ground ball, you’re gonna get a fist bump from somebody, but every time you miss a pass miss the net or don’t do so well, you’re still going to get a fist bump, because the goal of this camp is not only to make you a better lacrosse player, but it’s to build a team. And we want to make sure that we all have each other’s back. And then he said, How many fist bumps Do you think we can get in an hour, and one kid pipes up and says 500, which. And the coach said, Let’s go boys 500 fist bumps in the next hour. And I watched my son who wanted to be anywhere but are getting fist bumps left and right, the gratitude aspect acknowledgement of his existence. And not only that, he’s giving fist bump back to these kids who were 6466. And that hour was amazing. On the way home, we get in the truck, and he just about passes out in the backseat from exhaustion. And I’m like Jack, how is that? He goes just before he closes his eyes. Best day ever. So here’s the moral of the story. It took this coach no more than 10 seconds to create a culture. Are you reading keep it simple. That was it. 10 seconds, everybody was swimming in the same direction. Jack felt engaged, not just participating. And then the bolt of lightning hit me, why can’t we legislate a 10 second script on every useful program across the world where it takes only that long to create a community. Because here’s what happens in the long term. 10 years from now, when a kid goes through what we call the 500, fist bump experience, right, which is we try to get 500 fist bumps at every youth or recreation activity that I’m going to talk about what happens to our brain when we have this physical touch 10 years from now when when the future Jack’s of the world, our teachers or our parents or the coaches on the field, police officers, firefighters, etc. We feel pretty confident that they will now have a greater sense of empathy, encouragement, support, respect and love for their fellow human beings. That’s a good time. That is my life for them until I till I leave this planet.
Dave Kelly 39:32
Mike, Have you followed up with that coach and kind of given them your feedback and how he’s inspiring the team but it’s inspired and inspired a dad at the same time. Did you Yeah. Did you speak to him?
Dr. Mike Perko 39:45
Good. Here’s the amazing thing so that the idea didn’t hit me right away. So that coach left after a week after a week. But here’s the thing. That coach went and inspired other kids with that speech. My My, my big, I wouldn’t say a problem is that if we’re lucky, we had that coach in our life. My goal was to legislate every kid, every kid who steps on the Ice Court field, or pool, gets that coach, I waited four years when Jack played other sports, if that magic would happen again, and I never saw it. So it was it was a couple years later that I had the idea that every kid should be part of a 500 Fist bump, but but I don’t even know his name. But I hope that someday he sees this and remembers the littlest kid at his camp and says, that was me, because I will, I will make him chairman of the board, man, because
Rolando Rosas 40:41
it’s such a wonderful story. And I think you also mentioned that it does change the brain itself. And don’t want to let that slip. Because this is a great story. And some people will say, that’s good, Mike. But that doesn’t work. You know, kids, that’s just another name for ribbons. Right? You’re just making them feel good. Tell me about what you know about the research behind that.
Dr. Mike Perko 41:06
Yeah. So here’s the power of the fist bump. Everybody knows what a fist bump is sort of a universal symbol, right? Well, if you think about it, it is skin to skin. And we have a massive field of study in neurobiology of what a tactile gesture does for us. So let’s be clear. After five fist bumps, our brain begins to produce a chemical called oxytocin, which is, which is the brain’s pleasure chemical. So just by stepping on the field and getting five fist bumps within a couple of minutes, you’re already creating an experience for you. That’s, that’s, that’s a good experience, right? I feel good here. After 50. Fist bumps, we have now reduced the levels of cortisol, right, which is the stress hormone in our body. After 150 fist bumps, are you ready, we’re now lowering our blood pressure and anxiety levels. Now this research has been gone gone on for five decades, right after 300. Fist bumps, we have now created an environment for us to feel safe and in a trusted space. And here’s where the magic happens after 500 fist bumps, the insular cortex, which is a part of the brain that’s really hidden low into the folds. In our brain, that creates really a recipe for us to feel safe, trusted. We literally feel like we have created a sense of community that the insular cortex is the part of the brain that that that we feel believes is part of our consciousness. So we are consciously in a place that we feel like we can’t wait to get on that soccer field, because we know it might be the only environment that we’re in, where we feel safe, secure. And part of the group
Rolando Rosas 43:05
does it have besides the neurobiology you explain so eloquently, does it? Or could it have any performance benefits as well?
Dr. Mike Perko 43:16
So, yes, as a matter of fact, for those naysayers that come to me say Oh, Mike, you know, 500 fist bumps. Yeah, that’s a participation trophy. I will refer them to a study that was done out of Cal Berkeley that took 234 NBA players, right all levels, the highest paid down to the rookies. And what they did is they encouraged these players to high five, as many people as they could, during their practices, and in fact, encouraged the teams to adopt that behavior. Across all 234 players, it didn’t matter, their salary or years in the league, they all performed better. We know that if we can create a team based on trust, acknowledgement, gratitude, and, you know, when you get scored upon as the goalie, everybody runs up fist bumps you and says, Man, we’re still in this, that’s going to create a team that does better performance wise, than just the opposite of the coach who screams at you and yells at you and, you know, makes it a negative experience, especially for
Rolando Rosas 44:18
kids. That is amazing. That is just fascinating. We could spend another hour just talking about the research the data, and how, what it means to use sports, what it means to the workplace, as well imagine in the workplace, if, you know, it’s not quite a sports environment. It’s not a soccer team. It’s not a football team. But the team concept, I think is being redefined as well by virtual work and there may be some form of this I’m sure that can be brought into the workplace to create you know, more unity, better performance, a safe a safe space, you know, because a lot of people do not feel safe at work for a number of reasons.
Dr. Mike Perko 45:00
So I know we have a short time, but I need I want to get this point again. And I want to, I want to thank you and Dave for for giving me this, this this platform, we know that kids have been through it. Okay? We know that kids are stressed, they’re anxious, etc. What What my goal in life is every coach who welcomes a kid into the pool on the court at the rink, or wherever they play doesn’t just see a speedy left wing, or a kid with a strong right foot. I need them to know that if they have 20 kids on their team, are you ready? Right? to Don’t know where they’re going to eat their next hot meal for live in either an abusive or broken home, five, do not have English as their primary first language. So everything else takes a little more time is a little more difficult. Six are being bullied in some form or fashion. Eight have been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, some sort of PTSD or some sort of mental condition. All 20 have been through active shooter training since pre K. The reason I make this point I appreciate you allowing me to make it is again, what are we doing for these kids? There’s nothing there. There we have an epidemic of mental health for kids. We don’t go to the coaches and say, Hey, maybe you want to do this, I’m going to the CEOs and saying you need to put in 500 fist bumps, it’s imperative that you commit to doing this to the future members of your community. That’s That’s my goal.
Rolando Rosas 46:51
I applaud that. And I hope more people that hear this message can share that forward that on to their legislatures and their coach, their high school, their college, their workplace, so that the more people are out there doing it, it just becomes part of it. There you go. 500, because we got a good shot here of you doing some of that. Where can people go if they want more information, my
Dr. Mike Perko 47:18
500fistbumps.org. We are affiliated with the Center for athlete well being here at UNCG, which is a nonprofit center that studies all aspects of the well being of athletes, from little kids, Rolando, I know you have a wonderful four year old, right, who’s going to be involved? Wouldn’t you like them to be a part of a 500 Fist bump experience where every time whether it’s soccer or football or hockey or swimming, they know that the community they join will be a 500 Fist bump. I don’t know about you’ve got kids. But man, this is the this is the future. Expect, man.
Rolando Rosas 47:54
That’s what he’s got. He’s got he’s got he’s got he knows. So we’ve been talking to Dr. Mike Perko a very important conversation about the future work and about those future workers. That will be our leaders at some point. And if you enjoyed this episode, and you want more data and stories about remote work, and you’ll want to check out that last episode that we did regarding the state of remote work, where we give you some data, evidence and statistics, including the data found by Fujitsu of 80,000 employees and what it was like after they sent everybody home. So you want to go check out those episodes you can listen or watch@circuitloops.com or wherever you consume your podcasts. So I want to thank Dr. Mike Perko for coming on the show today. And we will see you next time. Or fist bump and a fist bump. There you go. Now, for those that are watching us on YouTube, I want to invite you to go to this episode that I’ve got on the screen right now Dave and I will see you in those episodes. See you next time.
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